Advice on sourcing logs, and ROI on a personal bandsaw mill?

[NBraun]

Not sure if this is the best place to put this, but it seemed to fit the bill!

I have some easy questions, and I'm hoping for a little direction while I figure everything out.

For the questions.

1. If you have to pay for the logs, ( meaning no suitable trees on your own property), is it still cost effective to buy a mill to mill your own lumber.

2. If it is cost effective, where in the world do I look to buy these logs?

Now for more details. My wife and I bought a small acreage in eastern South Dakota last July, and I am the kind of guy who really prefers to DIY everything. We're both willing to put in the work, and labor to accomplish our goals. Currently the list of things we want to build just keeps getting longer. We'd like to build a chicken coop, sugar shack, goat barn, and i'd like to try my hand at a timber framed pergola. Enough projects, that IMO a mill would probably pay for itself. On top of that, I enjoy wood working with hardwoods and trying to find hardwoods cut to the size that I want is annoying enough that I figured I'd be better off DIYing that too.

I have a loader tractor, backhoe, a 16' car trailer personally, as well as access to a 24' gooseneck, and larger tractors. Enough that I feel comfortable enough to handle logs. On top of that I plan on Purchasing a smaller Skidsteer in the near future.

I have the ability to fabricate a bandsaw mill, or we could purchase a smaller one from a manufacturer, but either way I plan on being into it $2-$4,000.

However, onto the second question. I'm in eastern SD. The prairie is not exactly known for all of it's trees. How do I source logs that I can mill into lumber/timbers  for my projects? What should I expect to pay per log? Anything else I should know/think about?

I would really love for the numbers to work out on this idea. But please let me know if my thinking is off. As much as would love to have the tools around to do this, If the savings isn't there I have other things I can spend my time doing.

Thanks!

[GAB]

NBraun:
I'm not the best person to answer your questions, but I can tell you that the value of yard trees is ZERO.
This past saturday I sawed a very valuable black walnut yard tree.  I only scraped 5 sawmill blades because of the nails and screws in it.
If you buy yard trees plan on paying for them a second time in blades, and a third time in lost time.
GAB

[slider]

GAB has a good point but if you could find a couple of tree service companies to work with it might be worth looking into. I would suggest for you to bring your trailer to the job and pay them for the logs that you feel good about. Some times high enough to be away from nails and screws and pay a premium for good stuff . Don't let them bring them to you ,pick your logs.

I have been sawing for 25 years and doing tree work for 12 . I get many fine logs from yards but not always . I also have had a sharpener and setter for a while . If i hit a nail just fix the band but a screw ,the band is toast.

Metal detectors have not worked for me.

Good luck with your venture but do not let them bring you the junk.

[SawyerTed]

Call your US Forest Service Ranger for your district OR look at your USFS district 's website.  They usually keep a list of loggers and sawmills who buy timber and logs. The USFS Ranger will have advice on who you could contact to purchase logs.  

Check with with area sawmills to see if they have price lists for what they are paying for logs.  Some sawmills operate concentration yards and resell logs.  This is something our company is doing.  We sell to small sawmills occasionally 

[NBraun]

Thanks guys, i'll keep that in mind for any local urban logs. I figured I would start calling around to some companies too.

Unfortunately Pretty much zero mills on this side of the state. Though I could certainly still call the FR and mills that are in SD.

[WV Sawmiller]

   I just checked the WM Services tab for their "Find a local Sawyer" pro-sawyer network for SD and I saw 3 listings. I don't know how far they are from your area but if they are close you might contact them to see if they have trouble sourcing logs or you might see if they have lumber for sale.

 I often get people calling me wanting me to saw their logs on shares. I rarely do this but tell them if they find someone who wants to share the costs they can call me back and set up an appointment for me to come saw their logs and the buyer would pay the sawing fee. If any of these 3 are close to you they might give such customers your name and contact info and you might get some cheap lumber with a little sweat equity and a sawing fee. I.e. If the customer has the logs and you worked on halves with him, you could pay the fees for 1,000 bf and get 500 bf of it for your use. Just a thought. Good luck.

[OH Boy]

check with some of the utilities in your area too. they trim and remove trees along powerlines, which can create some logs, particularly transmission lines. now the logs will be privately owned if on private property, but might be some potential to work with a landowner. i know in Cali and Oregon where the fires were, they are removing more trees than could realistically be recovered in order to keep them from falling in and causing the next fire.

[btulloh]

Do either of these pics look like your area tree situation?  How far away is the closest sawmill or logging operation?  Just curious. Many of us live in more densely forested areas with nearby sawmills, logging operations, tree services, etc. so it's a little harder to relate to your location.

ROI or productivity will be significantly affected by transportation costs. 

Of course having a sawmill and producing your own lumber can be quite satisfying even without selling any lumber or sawing services.  Many of just do it as a very satisfying hobby and don't generate any income, and some generate a little bit of income to help offset the cost of consumables, so it isn't always a question of roi.  My monetary return is pretty close to $0.00, but I feel well compensated in other ways. 



 

[esarratt]

I get free wood off of the Craigslist free section.  I have only sawn a few logs so far, but no nails/metal yet.  I am using a chainsaw mill.

The only metal I have hit is my own screws I put in for a guide board. :laugh:

[SawyerTed]

The ROI with a small hobby/personal use sawmill is exactly what the operator makes it. Can you save "a lot of money?"  Absolutely!  Can a sawmill be a colossal waste of money?  Absolutely!  

[NBraun]

WV sawmiller, I'll definitely look into that. 

Btulloh, Not quite that bare! Most of the trees around here are urban or in shelter belts. The closest sawmills are going to be in the black hills, which is 6 hours away, or Minnesota, which would probably be 3-4 hours away.

I kind of figured I would have to buy a truckload of logs from one of these places and drive them back.

[fluidpowerpro]

I second what esarratt said. 
I watch the free section of craigslist just to see whats there. You'd be surprised what people give away. I see lots of free logs that people want to get rid of out of their yard (urban areas). 
If its on the ground I consider it. 
Lots of times they are advertising "free wood" and all you have to do is cut the tree down. Then you look at the picture and see its a huge tree thats leaning over their house. No way, not touching that.....
I would think in Sioux Falls there would be some urban logs people want to get rid of.
Based on what you describe as far as your goals for the wood, it doesn't sound like your going to need a ton of logs all at once. If thats the case just get the word out to friends and family that you want logs and I bet over time you will have more than you know what to do with.

[Southside]

I kind of figured I would have to buy a truckload of logs from one of these places and drive them back.

Be sure to check with your local Forestry entity.  There are rules that pertain to logs crossing County lines, State lines, etc.  Sometimes it's nothing, sometimes it requires an inspection, othertimes it's a no go.  So check first.  

[Nebraska]

@NBraun are you north or South of Sioux falls?

[NBraun]

@Nebraska , Just south of Brookings.

[rusticretreater]

I constantly check craigslist for my area and the next area over.  I once found a guy who had so many logs he gladly worked with me to pull all the good logs and loaded them on my trailer.  I made a bunch of trips.  I also got some big logs from another post on the site.

One of the tree services posted that they would bring you a load of logs free.  I asked if I could come to their lot and check it out and they said OK.  Most of it was urban cuts, but I pulled 5 really nice ones out of it.

Since I have wooded land and I have been getting logs free, I haven't bought much. Some of the posted prices are outrageous and I usually just don't bother.  If you read some of the other posts about purchasing logs, there usually is a long education process with the customer and they still won't budge.

There is also the old, hey I see you have a tree down.  I will remove it for free!

As for ROI on a mill, that is a matter of personal viewpoint I think.  But when I think of going to the box store, seeing the prices and the varying quality of the wood.  Yeesh.  At least my co-op has decent locally milled wood.  But its like growing veggies yourself.  Which do you prefer?  Yours or the supermarket's?

[chet]

NBraun,
Some time ago we had a member, that has since passed,  from the treeless Dakotas such as yourself. He would get all or a big part of his logs from the local town stump dump. Granted these will most likely be all urban trees.

[Ianab]

Urban logs are a lucky dip as Forrest Gump says, you never quite know what you are going to get. 

But if the price is right (free or a little labour), then it's often worth the gamble and the occasional ruined blade. You might find species that are "exotic" ornamental, and if you are into wood working all sorts of boards and slabs become usable, even if they wouldn't make "grade" at a commercial mill. 

[Brad_bb]

You've got a lot of projects listed and because of that I'm going to suggest you buy a good mill rather than take and extra year or two to try and build a homemade one.  I would recommend Woodmizer(as I am a Woodmizer owner).  I have the 2014 LT15go, and for your I'd recommend the LT15 as you don't need to "go" anywhere with it and will save some money.  I have the 19hp Kohler but I'd like to switch to electric motor.  It's supposed to be as or more powerful and much quieter and less maintenance and issues.   I mill inside a pole barn.  The LT15 is a good mill.  It is manual loading and turning and mine is manual feed(you don't need powered feed in my opinion).  It's the lower end of the non-hobby mills in my opinion.  It may be a bit more than you prefer to spend, but I think it's worth it for you, and for resale.  I've never seen anybody regret going bigger in sawmills.  I've seen plenty lament not going big enough.

When you said you were in SD, I figured you must have pine nearby.  How far away is it that you have all that pine that gets logged?  I've never really been to SD, so I don't know for sure.  Even if they were 4 hours way, what would it cost to get a semi load of logs to you?

There really isn't much "logging" in my area of IL so I relied on alternate methods.  I developed relationships with a couple firewood guys that were semi rural.  They dealt with a lot of tree services.  Sometimes they were city log and sometimes country logs.  I got them to save out the logs I would want, I'd come look and pay them and usually I paid them to deliver them.  They did a lot better than firewood prices without have to put any work in.  One of them had a pretty good size firewood operation so he saw a lot of logs and I got a lot from him.  

I also kept my eyes out on facebook marketplace and craigslist.  Problem with those is that YOU usually have to have the ability to load the logs.  Most people on there do not have a machine.  Matt Cremona's log arch trailer would really come in handy for small sawyers like us.  https://mattcremona.com/category/urban-logging/equipment/log-trailer

[rusticretreater]

I modified my car hauler trailer to also do some logging work.  I built a log arch and also welded support jacks onto the rear sides.  It was my first foray into welding as well and it was fun and worked out well.

Some folks post on craigslist that they are going to have trees taken out and try to line up folks to take the wood ASAP.  I was able to visit a fella and told him how I wanted the tree to be cut.  The owners usually find it interesting to hear about saw milling.