Green cross tie weight

[rooster 58]

So I am researching for trucking purposes the weight of a fresh sawn 7x9x9. My research shows a pretty wide range of weights.  What say you guys?.

[B.C.C. Lapp]

That's a tough question with different hardwoods involved.  Soft maple, cherry or ash aren't going to weigh what beach, hickory or oak weigh. But I know your well aware of that obvious point. What do you cut most of your ties out of or is it always a mix?   I'd suggest putting the loaded truck over the scales three or four loads and take the average but maybe your needing to know before you load up.    I know I don't want to load many by hand. Anything over a 3.5x6x10 starts feeling heavy long before quitting time.

[red]

200 lbs

[SawyerTed]

On average, Red's 200 pounds is about right. 

7x9x9 is about 4 cubic feet.   White oak weights a lot, gum not so much.  It probably does average out to around 200 each maybe 225. 

Here's a wood density chart from Penn State Extension Service.  To the far right it gives weight for different moisture content.

https://extension.psu.edu/calculating-the-green-weight-of-wood-species

[Magicman]

Convert it to bf (47.25 bf) and then go to the Red toolbox.  bf X whatever the "Green Lumber Weight Estimator says.  Red Oak is 5.2 lb per bf so:

47¼ X 5.2 = 245.7 lbs.

The Red toolbox will give you the estimated green weight for many species.

Red toolbox

[SawyerTed]

The Penn State chart gives an average hardwood weight of 59 pounds per cubic foot.

4 cubic feet x 59 pounds = 236 pounds on average for hardwood.

[Magicman]

If I am trucking and crossing scales, I want to be as close as possible.

I watched a customer load a flatbead with ERC lumber headed to Good Soil, SK, Canada.  Not only was he crossing many state lines, he was also making a border crossing.  He thought that close was good enough but he had to give the weight police some ERC lumber.    :

[SawyerTed]

A CAT Scale costs less than $15 IIRC.  Overweight is on the driver. 

The way to be precise is either weigh each bundle of ties or weigh the truck before it leaves the yard.  Next best is the truck goes directly to some other certified scale like s CAT Scale.

A good figure has to be used to estimate shipping cost/number of ties to be shipped per load etc. I would think a customer would have an idea of how many ties per load that would stay within limits. 

Calculating each tie based on species would be cumbersome.

[Magicman]

Yup, which is why I used Red Oak.  It and Hickory are our heaviest species.  Most other species come in @ close to a pound per bf less. 

With a mixed load, 240 lbs per tie would be safe.

[rooster 58]

Thanks guys. This load I'm working on now is a mixture of red oak, gum, and chestnut oak. Also, the ties are mostly 7x9's with a few 7x8's mixed in. This week hauled 60 ties on a log trailer I'm considering to purchase. 7 of the ties were 7x8's. The truck and trailer handled the load very well. There was alot of hickory in that load, no gum. Red and white oak, and chestnut oak. The issue is that it may nor be cost effective for  me to vuy the trailer.  By the time I pay for the trailer, insurance,  fuel, and my time, it might be better to outsource it. The problem with that is it's hard to find someone reliable that isn't booked up

[Magicman]

I seem to remember that you moved and are no longer in Colorado??  If so, how about updating your profile so that we will know.

[SawyerTed]

Sometimes it works out better to "stay in your lane."   Meaning let the truckers truck and stick with sawing. 

My dad is a retired preacher.   He had an intern many years ago.  He was studying to be a minister.   The intern's day job was a sign painter.   

The church had built a new parsonage.  Dad was painting inside indoors one day..  Mr Weaver, the sign painter/"preacher to be" said, "There is nothing worse than a preacher trying to be a painter. "

My Mom, not to let something like that slide said, "Except a painter trying to be a preacher." 

They laughed about that for 50 years.  But  there's truth to "letting the experts be experts". 

[Ron Wenrich]

We used to put 100 ties on a loaded flatbed log trailer.  Mostly oak with maybe 10-15 7x8.  Thing to remember about calculating weight is that the ties generally aren't double end trimmed.  That means the 8½' ends up being longer, and adds a bunch of weight to the load.  An extra 3" on a tie will add an extra tie for every 34 ties on a load.  We also didn't worry too much about scales.  Back roads and early morning hauling.

I used to tell sawmillers to decide if they wanted to be truckers or millers.  Depending on your business plan, farming out your hauling can be cost effective.  The capital outlay, maintenance, and operational costs can outweigh contract hauling.  Especially if they can haul more weight than you can.  If you're doing the hauling, you probably aren't producing lumber then.

The outfit I worked for were truckers that were in the logging and sawmill business.  They did very little contract hauling.  We were doing about 2-2.5 MMbf/yr in lumber, plus veneer, firewood, bark, chips and sawdust.  That size makes sense to have trucks.

[Stephen1]

I Saw and Dry, and now I sell.
I outsource the picking up of logs to a towing company with a tilt deck. I send him to pick up yard trees, which is all I saw. Way cheaper and easier than me getting some sort of truck to carry and or lift logs. If it is 1 log and I am not busy I have a float trailer for my bobcat that if the log can be loaded at the other end I may go and pick it up myself. I(Cathy) always looks at the cost benefit of me doing it or contracting it out.

[rooster 58]

Yeah, I really  would like to stay out of the trucking business  if I could. The trouble is that I can't  find a truck locally yet. Everyone says they're covered up. And it would make more sense if I could haul 80 ties instead of 60. I'm going to try 70 next time. But still,  like everyone has pointed out, with everything involved,  it still would not save alot, imo. I might have to keep looking for a truck

[rooster 58]

Magicman,
       I now live near Spencer, WV, which is in the southwestern part of the state. I will change my profile soon!

[Magicman]

900 miles from me.  I am only familiar with War and Bradshaw Mt. which are both on the Southern tip of WV.

[rooster 58]

I'll be heading to Arkansas in a few days to get a bird dog puppy. I reckon I'll be a little north of you