Making it thrugh another year, '24-'25

[GRANITEstateMP]

Tom,

Throwing a random idea out to you for winter work.  We have a rough cut pine picture frame that houses an aerial photo of the farm and fields.  The frame has a lot of character, and I've never found another like it.  Maybe a few frames might be worth adding?  Maybe some "rustic" and then some higher end??? 

Matt

[Bert]

To Piggyback on Granites suggestion, you might consider wood shutters as well? I live in a log house and made a basic set in less than an hour and have had several people ask me to make them some. Just decorative and screwed to the outside of the front windows.  These arent mine but similar. Mine have stars instead of hearts.

[WV Sawmiller]

Bert,

   Them shutters is supposed to have a big cross in the middle so you can shoot in both directions out of them. At least that's how we build them in WV.

    (We do still have old homes in the area with shooting ports in the windows the original owners used to shoot at the Indians and Yankees Union troops.)

[Old Greenhorn]

Well thanks to both of you for those suggestions, as well as Howard for his 'style tips'.  These jobs are all 'client specific' and I certainly look for these as commissioned jobs. But I can't make those on speculation or I would have a ton of stuff sitting around that is 'not quite the right size' for any given client. However I am happy to make them for anybody that has specific sizes.
 So yes, good ideas, but I need specific clients to make them for. In fact I have a fine photo portrait of my dear friend Bill that has been sitting in a cheap frame since after he passed in 2016. It was taken at the last public performance he had and the photographer, who came out from CA for the event gifted me with three copies in 16x20 for his wife, son, and myself. I framed mine but never hung it up because, well, it brought back my sadness. Maybe it's about time I made a proper frame and got it on the wall where it belongs. It's a great photo. I have made picture frames before, but never a really nice one. This is a good excuse. 

[Bert]

Them shutters is supposed to have a big cross in the middle so you can shoot in both directions out of them.

I use the back windows for that

I was just thinking a speculative set to display and take orders at your shows. Just a thought of a low input, moderate output revenue generator.

[SawyerTed]

Maybe a notebook of sample ideas?

Just a few photos or plans of things you might make?  I'm thinking 8 or ten items selected with some discernment.  Then add to it along the way.   Things you might want to build or repeat build.  

Think annotated portfolio not catalog.   

That way you don't have to lug samples of everything.  

[Old Greenhorn]

Well, you're right of course, but I have an interesting problem which I have been pondering lately and that is how to make more 'space' in my booth setups. In fact, my last few shows I have been leaving stuff in the trailer because the booth is too overcrowded and has a cluttered look. I learned at the last show that getting things up at eye level helps, so I am thinking on how to improve that.
 But booth space costs and I have to work hard to maximize that. I have some nice signs up listing the other things I make and services I can provide. I may expand on that idea for next year. But building shelf units is problematic for 2 reasons, one is setup time and the other is stability on soft ground and in windy conditions.
 As an example, I have been carrying a finished bench slab around to shows for 2 years now, billed as a 'do it yourself bench, just add legs, or make a table, or can modify as a mantel'. I have not had a single toss on it. It seems nobody makes anything for themselves anymore or does any work at home. Years ago, before I was doing doing anything like this at all, I could easily see myself jumping on something like that. People are fickle.

[WV Sawmiller]

Tom,

   Would an electronic picture frame work well to show some of the items you offer but don't have room to bring with you to shows? 

    We have one our daughter gave us for Christmas and we love it. I got Mom one last year and sent to her. It shows hundreds of pictures and you can add to them basically like an e-mail. (I know that feature probably would not matter to you.) 

   The frame sits there and scrolls through each picture for a few seconds then moves to the next one and we can reverse or speed ahead with a finger swipe any time we need more time to look at something or speed ahead for some reason.

     They are not very expensive to purchase.

[Nebraska]

Actually a battery powered tv screen with a rolling slideshow with pictures of your projects and potential things that could be might hold folks to your booth longer. You could mix in some music since you are well connected there. 

[Old Greenhorn]

Well guys I have actually had a tablet at all of my shows this year running a non-stop set of photos. It isn't too big and only gets passing glances most of the time. I do have a small (17") TV, but it really doesn't do a good job of displaying photos and many come out sideways or worse. I would need an inverter and I have to do the math (after I look it up) to see how long my deep cycle battery would run a 0.8 amp device through an inverter. But as I said it doesn't work real well anyway.
 Yeah I had one of those photo frames but it's not working anymore for some reason. All of these things are very hard to see in full sunshine, even under a canopy. If I find a sweet spot for it, the dang sun keeps moving and eventually you can't see the screen again.
 I could invest in a lot of things, but I find the 16x30" sign I have listing my services works pretty well to drive questions. I may go for a 10" tablet and see how that works. I power those right from a USB jack inside the trailer door.
 Ted, when somebody asks about a custom job or 'can you make...?" I grab a notebook and make them a sketch to see if I understand what they want. It's surprising how many people cannot understand drawings hardly at all. but sketches in front of them can seem to work most times. Also, having that tablet with photos I can pull up to show examples works pretty well.

[WV Sawmiller]

Tom,

   Have you considered putting up a sign saying "If you don't see what you want here, ask me about it."

   I have a sign up when I go to the flea market that says "All prices are negotiable. If you feel my prices are too low feel free to offer more."

   I have another that says "Make an offer. I am pretty hard to offend - But it can be done!"

    I have one that says "Blue Lives Matter! Buy a birdhouse for your local bluebirds" I post it with pictures of my bluebirds at home using my style birdhouses. Entry shot with adult at the entrance hole. Top off and nest with eggs. Top off and a shot of the chicks.

    Mine are just printed on my home printer on regular typing paper and not multi-use professional signs.

[Old Greenhorn]

Two solid days of shop work keeping regular hours. Been starting morning fires and keeping them goin g longer each day to keep the temp up and the air dry in the shop. Today I fed the stove not as a regular day, but more than I have yet this fall. Getting cool at night, but they say a warm up is coming yet again.
 I have 5 projects in work at the same time, so I guess I am back in the swing. I have been making 2 more cookie mirrors, another cedar stool, two red oak bench/stools (could go either way), and am working on drawknifing and peeling branches for legs as a new thing to try. I am trying to become one with the draw knife.
 The cookie mirrors are making me nuts because these look like some of the best I have made so far and I'd like to get that float coat of epoxy on the front flawless if I can. Because they are RO and therefore ring porous, they let out tiny little bubbles from the grain. I babysit them for HOURS and think they look great, then the next morning I have between 3 and 50 little frozen bubbles in the surface. See the photo in reply 363 for an example. It's maddening. I had a series of PM's with the WOC a few days ago and he listed all the stuff I had tried, plus a long list of things I hadn't yet, as well as what he knows from his experience. Mostly he helped me realize this just is not simple, no matter how skilled you are. Hang in there and don't give up is the lesson of the day. So I have 4 'finish' top coats on both of the cookies along with a few repair pours. One is close, in fact, this mornings pour laid out perfectly and for 6 hours it remained perfect. I thought I had it nailed, but no. I saw one flow/dot/crater show up at around the 6 hour mark. I tried a little heat and MAY have sealed it. The problem adding heat is that it also warms the wood and can force out new bubbles. It was holding ok last time I checked it. The other one had several persistent spots that would just not seal. SO after commiserating with Rob I thought I would try something out of the box and a little weird. I won't know if that worked until late tonight or tomorrow. If it works, I'll let you know. It's based in physics, so maybe I have that going for me. These things can make you nuts.


Photo above is my current problem child. This one below is the one I think will be good to go in the morning. I just have some work to do on the backside and fit the mirror. If It's just one pit, I will still let it go, because every one I have made so far has one pit in it. I am looing for a real clear and clean face because the grain details in these is just so super.



 After I did my pours I cut the legs and did some sanding on the ERC stool and put a coat of finish on it. Then I tried running tenons on the branch legs and the first one I had up I didn't realize had a rotted out center so I had to draw knife another one and had the best success with the tenon tool I have ever had. I got some (not a lot, but SOME) chips like Doc gets.



 This was a 'zippidy do dah, do a little jig' moment for me. I have been trying to get this for 5 years now. Clearly, partially green wood is the key to this, but the results were much better.



 A nice straight tenon of consistent size and a nice clean shoulder. I bought a 1/2" HF (Bauer) variable speed drill a coupe of months back and although it has not speed limiter and you have to use trigger pull to hold speed which is tough, it works a LOT better. I don't know how long that drill will last because I could smell it working and it nearly threw me against the wall a time or two. But I learned a lot today. Going forward I will try to get leg blanks cut and tenoned while they are green, then let the dry and finish them up later. Now that 'I get it' I have to change the process entirely.
 So I have been busy and staying honest. (Well, reasonably so.)
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Howard, I have lots of signs in my booth, but most are specific and with a single point. I do have one sign that is about 17x24 that lists all my services and that does help. I do not offer to 'negotiate' Prices. I have a couple of items I would take a cut on, but I only offer that after I see someone looking it over. When someone comes in my booth and starts to put on their flea market negotiator act I have no patience for that and shut it off. I price almost all of my stuff as low as I can to get it to sell. Take those cookies mirrors above. I charge $45.00 for those after about 1.5 hors of sanding and prep work, epoxy pours, more sanding, more epoxy, more epoxy, more epoxy, then finally fitting the mirror. I probably have at least 5 hours work in each one. Nope, I am not negotiating that, sorry. I don't even want to hint at opening that door.
 But yeah, signs are good and your hints at humor are something I should consider including. I just don't want to clutter things up too much and confuse folks.

Tomorrow is yet another day.

[trimguy]

Tom, here's another item for you to consider. A stool to stand on to reach upper kitchen cabinets with a handle or for grandkids to reach the sink or whatever. It wouldn't need the fancy painting on it.

[Hilltop366]

Lots of finishing time involved that most people don't realize. If I was in the same business I would try products sanded to "almost ready to finish" and see if they sell. If I had to finish them the price would be way higher but it would require me to cast my net a lot further (thinking online shopping) to find enough people willing to pay the premium. Could still be one offs and short product runs. Then you get into the packaging for shipping and shipping damage and...... another whole set of challenges.

[Old Greenhorn]

Arnold, you know back in the early spring I did a show and there was a gal selling some old antique keyhole chairs. I could not figure ut what they were for, pretty small and looked quite similar to your photo, but were low chairs. I wonder if that was their purpose? At any rate, seeing those inspired me to make this idea I had:



Well, sort of similar anyway. I like your idea. I would have to figure out a few things about making that and they would take a bit more room in the trailer, but it is a neat idea and I could make them out of pine and paint them, reducing finishing work quite a bit. Let me take that under serious consideration.
____________________________________________________
 Yea Hilltop I get it. I think I mentioned a couple of posts back that the folks I see at shows don't want to do more than pay for it. Finishing is not in the cards for these folks. When I tale custom orders on stuff I offer to do the 'work' and they can finish if they like and it would save them a bunch. NOBODY has taken me up on it yet.  
 Shipping is it's own problem. I have one regular out of state client I make a product for and it kills me what I have to add on his invoice every time I ship. HOLY COW! 60 bucks for a box that weights about 12 pounds FULL. Every time I ship at UPS I tell the clerk "It would be a lot easier to pay this if you pointed a gun at my head when you gave me the price". (Most don't get the joke, or even know it's a joke, mores the pity.) And Yeah, I have had items damaged in shipment, so now I have to buy rigid foam insulation line the box sides, top and bottom with it and put partitions between each item. Packing takes about an hour per box and no, I don't fold that cost in. I just want the client to get what was paid for in good shape.
 I can't imagine shipping a bench or a stool and what it would cost. That's why when I buy more than a single item from Riteleg and Logrite I try to arrange a reason to drive to their plant and pick it up.  Shipping one pair of table legs has to be over 80 bucks now and UPS beats the crap out of them, given the weight. If I buy more than one pair of big legs, the shipping cost more than covers my 2 hour drive each way to pick them up, in perfect shape, and also have a meet and greet with some friends. I avoid shipping if I can.

[WV Sawmiller]

Tom,

    Nice pics and good ideas discussed.

     Did you know that when typing, if you hit the Enter key 2 times at the end of each paragraph, the result is a nice clean empty line/spacer that makes it easier to read long epistles? 

     Feel free to try it some time. 

[Old Greenhorn]

So you are saying the indent doesn't do it for you? You also need a blank line? Ok Howard just for you, I'll try it sometime. But if you noticed I have worked really hard on typing slower for like 2 weeks now. I hope that would be just as helpful.

[WV Sawmiller]

    I don't want to hurt your feelings but those indents don't always come through in your posts. 

    Thanks for typing slower. Us poor readers appreciate the extra time when we read your posts.

[SwampDonkey]

Yeah, hang your coat on that high piece and put your shoes on, and tie them, on that low bench. That's my kind of utilitarianism.   

[Old Greenhorn]

Arnold, is that your stool? IF so, could you show a photo of the bottom?
EDIT: and maybe the back too?

[trimguy]

It's not mine , but I'll try to get you pictures tomorrow.

[aigheadish]

I'm still contending that you are at "look what I threw together" prices, Tom, and your work is much better than that, but your customers don't understand, especially according to the price.

Up the price, substantially, to dicker down a bit. You may hate it but I think it's what most people going to shows like your want to do.

Instead, you should be at "look at my piece of art" prices (and making some money off things, if they sell). "Making" 45 bucks on something you spent 5 hours on is BS, and I'm convinced that the market will agree, even though it sounds counter-intuitive.

My wife does the same stuff with her bags. You guys both do great work but aren't charging enough for people to think it's worth something to you.

I don't know if that makes sense but reading through the stories of your shows this summer it may be worth a try, especially if you get another Woodstock show. I said it above somewhere but the city folk want to be able to brag about the "deal" they got spending 100 bucks (or more) on this beautiful table/stool/bench/cookie mirror etc.

"Oh, that? That's a beautiful Walnut stool that I got straight from the guy that made it, he was the real deal, gruff, New Yorker accent, kind of a harda$$, but also charming... He told me where in the woods he cut the tree and made it into this! Oh, he also was telling me he knows such and such musician, you know him! He had it listed for $250 but I got it for 195! Isn't it beautiful?! "

It may be worth a try. Call me crazy. You are a good talker and the experience you have making an item makes for a story that sells your art at a premium, so the buyer can have that for a story too.

[Old Greenhorn]

You're Crazy Austin (well you did say...)  But seriously Austin. I have thought on this a lot. I don't have a choice, there are several folks who keep saying this, but the fact is that we don't get those deep pocket buyers at the shows around here. I am really no comfortable playing those games and risking not selling anything. If anything I am trying to put some cheap stuff out on the tables to at least cover my costs. Where I can make some of that up is when I do get a discriminating buyer who orders custom and pays appropriate prices for that.
 
I have had a few people at shows who lean in and tell me my stuff is priced too low. When I ask why they say that, I usually get a response along the lines of "Well, I know what I am looking at and how much it took to make that", but here's the rub, they never buy anything.
 
Now OTOH I have been 'adjusting prices' on items that do sell regularly which are 'instant buys' meaning the customer never looks twice at the price, just pays what's marked. This tells me there is more room to get closer to what I have into it. All my stools will go up next year, so will the mirrors and trinket boxes.
 
Also note that I have those cherry benches which are priced quite high (ballpark $450) to satisfy the higher end buyer. All season long they have gotten many admirers but only 1 serious tire kicker that fussed over them a bit and said they would be back, but didn't return.
 
People are fickle, markets are fickle, that's all I know.
--------------------------------

Arnold, thanks. If you can that would be great, but if you can't, I think I can figure it out. I'm just wondering how the top is attached to the front leg and the stretcher. Do they have a name for that thing?

[Old Greenhorn]

I went looking for that stool/chair thingy and seem to think it is a shaker design. I found this link quite interesting and noted the price would make it 'worth my while" to make. But, I don't sell out of a nyc studio.
https://www.portmanteaunewyork.com/furniture/vintage-shaker-style-high-back-pine-step-stool-circa-1981

[aigheadish]

Precisely what I'm talking about... I hope you understand I say these things with love. You deserve more for your work and higher prices (more value) may do something. The stories are where it's at with today's buyers.