Making it thrugh another year, '24-'25

[Machinebuilder]

I found plans and started to make one of the shaker steps. it got put aside when I misscut the back piece.

I think the plans I found were from one at Hancock Shaker Village, in Western Ma.

OGH that link refers to 1981 as vintage, I hate to think what an original shaker one would be called.

[Big_eddy]

Tom
Please take this the way it is intended. You are doing top shelf work, and then selling for basement prices. 
If your market won't support top shelf prices, then the other option is to lower your standards. For instance, instead of striving for a flawless 4 coat epoxy finish on your frames, spray them once with Poly and hang them in your booth. Unlikely that a customer that thinks $45 is steep would be able to tell the difference.

In terms of booth ideas, my son reclaimed a bunch of barnboard and has been making picture frames from it. He puts a couple of boards side by side, cuts a barn roof profile on the top and then tacks on some 1x1 pine for a roof. Cut out a few picture sized openings with a jig saw, rout a 1/4" flat around the backside of each opening for a picture to rest on, and some stiff boxboard with a few fasteners to hold it in and a picture hanger. They are quick and easy, look great, and no finish needed. People love them.  He's done everything from 12"w x16" tall barns with 4-5 openings, to 6x8 "sheds" with a single opening. You could include glass, but they sell just as well without.

[Old Greenhorn]

Eddy I take just about all comments in a positive way unless they are on the nasty side, which is more than rare here. Even if they don't really apply or it they are things I just don't want to do, I still learn something by listening and they help set me straight when I am drifting.
 
I don't have any barn wood but I did have to do a project about a year ago and create aged wood with a grey water wash. It looked 'ok' to me, the client was and remains very pleased with it, but as I said, I had to fake it. Many of my projects are subject to the materials that come my way, such as these cookies with the center eaten out by ants. The picture frames you propose, being cut in a single board are simple, would pack flat, and probably be lower cost sellers. I would however have to make quite a variety of sizes. If you don't mind my asking: 1) how does he treat the finished cut edges? B) around what price range does he sell these in?, and 3) Can you explain what you mean by sheds? A photo would really help.
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 I really don't think I charge basement prices for top shelf work. I see a lot of work out there that is much cleaner than mine. I mean look at the stuff Rob makes which he gets big bucks for. I can't hold a candle to the man, or Larry's stuff which is ions above my skill level. I'm just trying to pay my taxes.
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MB I don't usually work from others plans except to get ideas and general sizes. I have a book with a lot of colonial furniture designs from the various colonies and sects. That stool isn't in there but I can gather the fundamental joining styles and shapes which help. I have been to the Hancock village a long time ago (40 years?) and it's just a tad over an hour from me if I recall. Maybe someday I should make a visit again and see if they have any books or ideas.
 
The reason I like that stool is I could make some from Pine and test out that tiered pricing idea we have discussed here several times. That is, charging so much for a fully finished item, a bunch less for a built item that is ready to finish, and perhaps even less for a kit with all the parts cut and edged, screws, plugs and other stuff included. All you need to buy is glue. It would an interesting exercise in market research if nothing else. I could also make a couple in hardwood, finished and charge accordingly.

 Speaking of which, is is past time to get to work for the day, much warmer today.

[Big_eddy]

. If you don't mind my asking: 1) how does he treat the finished cut edges? B) around what price range does he sell these in?, and 3) Can you explain what you mean by sheds? A photo would really help

By either only using one board vertically, or using two with the cut edges butting together in the middle, there are no cut edges on the outside.
No idea pricing.
Example picture attached

[SawyerTed]

. You are doing top shelf work, and then selling for basement prices. 

Tom, I suggested the same several months ago when I said your shows aren't exclusive enough.  You are in the trivet, wind chime and macrame crowd with work that's much above that.

Marketing is creating an image as much as anything.  Creating an image of excellence and exclusivity will command higher prices.  Being at the shows where "everybody" goes may not be reaching the crowd that the "exclusivity" appeals to.  

You've got the skills, work ethic and product level to up the game.  

[Old Greenhorn]

Eddy, thanks for the photo and clarification. They look nice and I could see these selling pretty well. I'll have to look around for a source of aged wood. Perhaps some of those oddball boards that have been standing by the mill for 5 years getting bleached out by the sun. Every piece of wood has a use, you just need to recognize it and do something.
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Ted, Truly I am humbled by your opinion of my work, really I mean that. I just don't see myself at that level. I am a poser that just gets lucky once in a  while. OTOH I do think my work is certainly 'good enough' to make it at a higher end show but I am very hesitant to make the leap. First off, those are juried shows, meaning your work is reviewed and you are selected to exhibit. I don't think I would have any problem with that part, but the next part, entry fees, I would. These shows charge big bucks for a small 10x10 booth. Around here I have seen prices ranging from $500-$3,000.00 for a booth, plus they add on other costs like a trash fee, Wifi use, ticket costs for you and any staff, etc. These shows are big money makers for the sponsors and no, all those costs don't guarantee a buying public. I have a friend I have not seen in a while, but I have followed her progress for 10 years as she grew her craft and is now doing very select shows up and down the east coast, including an art show sponsored by the Smithsonian Institute. She has transportation, lodging, entry, and staff costs for all her shows. I should check in with her and buy her a cup of coffee sometime.
 
 Big shows scare me, it's quite the commitment.

[SawyerTed]

Upping the game just might take a few steps to get there.  There's got to be other avenues besides the shows.   

You have to change hats from "woodworker (I know you say you aren't) trying to sell stuff" to "artisan-entrepreneur."  Picking your friend's brain over coffee is a good idea. 

I have 3 creative kids. One is a potter one is an apparel designer and the third is a wood artisan.  The first two haven't figured out how to market the stuff they create. 

My son enjoys turning bowls and other items.  Bowls are his specialty.  He can't make enough to satisfy the demand.  He sells through the Arts Council Store.  Yes they take a commission but his prices account for at least a portion of the commission.  People have started asking for his bowls.  

The Arts Council only sells juried items.  The store handles sales and tax.  The clientele has disposable income.  The other events, concerts, plays and art shows draw constant flow through the store.

He takes several pieces and gets notified when they sell.  When they need restocking he carries a few more pieces and might pick up some that have been there a while. 

Surely there's somewhere similar in your area.  Consignment sales aren't a bad way to go.  What you pay in consignment fees, you save in show fees, gas, labor and time going to shows.

That's just one example. 

[Big_eddy]

I agree on the consignment stores. And I am constantly amazed at the prices they ask and receive for some of the items. I recently saw a table that was simply a 16" diameter block of hollow maple with a 20" diameter piece of glass for a top. It was priced at $2400!!   Yes the glass was tempered, and they had sprayed the entire block with poly, but really - $2400 for a chunk of log? I talked with the store owner. He'd sold 4 in the last couple of months and had two more in the back room. His store does take a substantial commission, but at those prices, I'd be fine with it. The store was in an affluent tourist area and had lots of traffic. The owner basically told me he'd take just about anything on consignment as long as it would sell. He wasn't overly particular that way, although he prefers higher priced items.  Was an eye opening conversation for me.

[Old Greenhorn]

Well fellas, no doubt you are right. In fact, for a couple of years now I have spent lots of hours looking for the right  consignment place, or studio, or gallery for my better pieces. LOTS of hours. This is not a new idea to me.

 But here's the truth, I don't really know how to 'make it happen' I don't know how to find the 'right place' and I don't know how to present my work to them. I also don't know how to price it for them. I have looked at a ton of 'wanna be' high end stores. Doing a deeper dive it's apparent they put the burden on the builders with terrible terms and pricing. One charges rent for the month of display then you have 24 hours to pick your stuff up or they will donate it or dump it. Another wants monthly fees, plus 40% of the sale price, another reserves the right to set the selling prices for any item. What I want is a gallery that will either buy outright, or help me price things so we both win. Last winter I literally spent weeks looking into this. I even made some calls with little success. I know that anything we have semi-locally is mostly wannabe's, not contenders.

 I know this sounds easy but it's not that simple by any stretch. Another thing I have been thinking and working on a little is a 'solo show' location. That is to find a place with the right traffic where I could set up for the day and do my own thing, maybe invite one other select vendor along. I am still and constantly, looking for that location, which is the key to the whole thing.

 No, I don't think these shows I do, except maybe two so far, are the way to go. But they get me going and make me think about the marketing as well as get me closer to the buyers so I can figure out what sells and what people want.

 I have flirted with the idea of throwing a few pieces in the truck and driving to NYC with a list of galleries, but that just sounds stupid. I used to navigate Manhattan in a former life and you need a very specific plan with appointments and parking figure out. I get what you guys are suggesting, but it is a lot easier said than done. Trust me, I'm trying. Now if anyone has any of these actual contacts or leads, I sure would love to hear them.

 Oh, and in case it isn't apparent, I really do appreciate the support and encouragement from the folks here, it's a great bunch of people.

[SawyerTed]

Pick a shop you like the looks of and just ask "how does an individual consign items here?"

Only consign 1 or 2 items to start.   Take 5 or 6 to let them see what you have to offer.   Let them pick. 

To get an idea of prices, visit some shops, check prices and ask how they price items. Look at items similar to yours in size, hours to produce and quality.  

It takes some leg work.

Sometimes acting like a "greenhorn" can be an advantage.   

[WV Sawmiller]

Tom,

   Hang in there. I know it is frustrating. 

   I can see value to the solo shows especially if you can add value to an existing vendor I would expect they may let you set up free on their lot. I'd look for other businesses where you compliment what they sell. 

   My wife used to do holiday and family pictures in a local department store. She did not pay any fee or commission. The store would let her set up around holidays like Easter or Christmas and we could use anything in the store to set up or as a prop for the pictures. Examples were Christmas trees and gifts and a big easy chair for Santa to sit in. Toys and wagons for the kids to sit in for pictures. 

    While waiting to get their pictures taken or after the photo shoot they would shop in the store so it was beneficial to all. Finally corporate HQ stepped in and decided they needed a cut and we stopped and the store managers complained about the drop in their local sales as a result.

    Where could you set up that the normal customers would be attracted to your "show" and you could help draw business to the owner of the facility? Building supply places? Department stores? Farm and garden shops? Sporting goods places? Produce stands?

   And while the solo show may work would you attract more customers if you joined forces with other vendors you have met and respect? Think Flea market vs yard sale. Maybe a food supplier selling baked goods or hot dogs or gyros or such. Maybe it is a chainsaw carver? Maybe it is the lady selling high quality canned foods or homemade crafts?

   Again you need to be offering something that complements but does not compete with the business owner.

[SwampDonkey]

I agree on the consignment stores........simply a 16" diameter block of hollow maple with a 20" diameter piece of glass for a top. It was priced at $2400!!  Yes the glass was tempered, and they had sprayed the entire block with poly, but really - $2400 for a chunk of log? 

Well, stove door glass is $700 to replace from the glass shop.    I've never broke one, but my brother has a stove with a busted or cracked glass door and priced it. Talk about pricey. 

[Machinebuilder]

I'm not very good at following plans to build stuff.......or recipes when I cook.
But that's why I do have a high failure rate

I suggested the plans as a place to start.
I think if you're trying to sell higher end you want each piece to have its own character.

[Machinebuilder]

this might be a good place to start

Fine woodworking Shaker Step

there is a paywall to get to the complete plans but there is an exploded drawing for the assembly

I may have gotten hung up on the mortice, I have learned I am very bad at fitting them.

[Old Greenhorn]

Pick a shop you like the looks of and just ask .......

And there's the rub Ted. I just can't find one of these places that I am comfortable with... yet. But I continue to look and ask around a lot. Someday I will find one.
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 As for that glass table, I don't think tempered glass is the same as is used in a stove. Tempered glass is like a 'safety glass' in that when it is broken it falls into millions of tiny pieces and not long shards. Stove glass I believe is a quartz glass and is a lot more expensive to make. Of course tempered glass isn't cheap either.

 Yes, I have seen some crazy prices on things too, like $300. for a vase with 5 white birch twigs in it. What I don't see is folks buying that stuff.
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MB, regarding that stool, this is why I don't use other designs, just the basic ideas. Looking at the one you noted it has that mortise cut in the seat, which is more of a clearance cut than a mortise. This may look nice, but (as you learned) a PITA to make and really adds nothing but visual appeal. In addition, you now have a seat protrusion past the back. I call that a negative feature because now you can't park the chair flush up against a wall or hang it neatly by the hand hole. Having a flat back would allow someone to hang it high on a wall and use the seat as a shelf, say for a plant or some such.
 Also the finger joints on the front are very nice, but beyond my current skills, so I would opt for an overlap top with screws and plugs. Yes, I could setup to make that joint and teach myself how, but I just don't see the extra work showing up in the sale value. I do plan to make one or two of these just for giggles and if you want me to sketch it up for you, you are welcome to it.
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 Changing gears back to actual work, I have been pouring and re-pouring a pair of those mirrors and finally gave up on perfection and called them finished yesterday and mounted the glass.



The one on the right is a bit closer to perfect then the left one. Pretty consistent on the finish.


We'll see how long these hang around.

 While the epoxy cures each day I have been working on other stuff. I finished another cedar stool with the finish nobody but me likes. 
 
 While that was drying I was working on a couple (3 or 4) of benches or stools. One pair will have the standard octagonal Maple legs and blind tenons with an 8/4 RO top. No news there. The other ones are totally different. I decided to take a nice Hemlock slab from the logs I milled back in June and dried it in the attic (It dropped 10 pounds of weight and MC came down from 28% to 13%). But the bark on this thing is not letting go. I don't get it. Tighter than a knat's butthole. So I have the draw knife all of it off a layer at a time and that bark is nearly an inch thick. I got a new/old draw knife last month in VT and after working on the edge a bit I gave it and my other good one a real workout to get the feel. Working the knife is a practiced skill and I am getting better, but boy it sure does provide a good workout on the shoulders and a bit a cardio as well. After nearly an hour I got it down to this level working next to the woodstove on a cool day.



Note that I am not yet down to the cambium layer yet, The reds are still in the outer bark level and man I made a lot of chips for the stove. I had to give that rest for a while and worked on the legs, also draw knifed and then tenoned at 1-3/8. Yesterday was beautiful (78°) so I get up a horse outside and went at it again. Just 1.5 hours to get this down to the white and I ran the ROS with 60 grit over it.



 Boy howdy, that was a lot of work that will never show up in the price.  This slab is about 40+" long, so I may cut it and make one bench and one stool out of it. It's an experiment to see how the branch legs look and how the Hemlock finishes up. I have not used branches in almost 5 years now and when I did, I was just trying to learn the tools. I still have the first one I made and it's strong (after 2nd pass repairs) but not real pretty though I am actually using it in the house by my desk.

 So work continues. Today I gotta fix the mowing tractor among other things then start on sanding the top of this bench and working on the legs for the RO benches. It's always something.

[Resonator]

Does that picture frame come with the picture of Tom THE mushroom logger?

One suggestion for bark removal, when I was scraping the bark off my spruce boards I'd use a hammer and chisel to get the outer bark roughed off. Then go to a coarse flap disk on the angle grinder to get down to bear wood, ate it up fast.

[Old Greenhorn]

I try most methods when I get a tough one and a chisel and mallet works well, sometimes. But for this slab, the draw knife worked the best. I did use a chisel when I got down to the pockets and it worked quite well there. They way I look at it, the bigger the chips, the more efficient the material removal is with sawdust being at the low end and big chunks at the top. Even the cambium layer on this was on there like paint and peeled off in long curls with the draw knife.
 Often on cookies and such, a chisel makes very quick work of it.
 Funny thing. The draw knife I had just gotten a few weeks ago did not appeal to me at all working on the rough bark. I used my old one which is longer and has almost no drop on the handles for all the heavy bark. But when I got it smoothed out, I tried the 'new' knife again and it peeled like a dream. Two knives that both shear well, but each works better than the other in certain situations. Later I looked up the history on my 'new knife'. Turns out based on the stamp, it was made in Austria sometime between 1821 and 1825. When I got it, it wasn't sharp, but it had no nicks or flat spots and although I don't have it razor sharp yet I did get it pretty sharp and I just have some pits to work through with further sharpening. I think I got quite a steal for my 20 bucks. I found a few of these in similar shape selling for over 100 bucks. I love the old tools that work like new.
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Edit to add, if I sold those cookies with a photo of me, I would have to drop the price and it's already too low.

[WV Sawmiller]

Tom,

   Its too late now but maybe you could have sold the frames with your picture for Halloween decorations an raised the prices.

[aigheadish]

Those pieces look great Tom!

I wonder about one of those very aggressive discs you can put on an angle grinder, for your bark... I was surprised with how little material you can take off. I don't remember what they are called but they are metal and have some mean looking teeth on them. I was terrified to try one until I did. I can appreciate the draw knife approach though. 

[Resonator]

They make a 4" angle grinder disc with chainsaw teeth that is really aggressive, designed to sculpt wood. In the future I plan to get one and try it.
Ideally with bark on the logs I would peel them fresh cut in spring, but that wasn't the case this time.

[aigheadish]

The one I'm talking about isn't chainsaw teeth but a similar idea. It can remove a lot of wood or you can take it easy. 

[Old Greenhorn]

One of these days when the bank is more fuller I will get one of those carving discs to try it out, looks interesting. I think even HF sells the now.

 I could have put a 36 grit disc on an angle grinder and perhaps made good time on this one. However, there is something very zen like in using a sharp clean cutting draw3 knife. It's a good workout, but work is good for you. Something about improving one's ability to shear off long even curls is very satisfying to me. Kind of like calming therapy. In fact I have thought about building a shave horse and sitting on it at shows just peeling log legs, but it makes quite a mess to clean up. The more you work with it, the better you get and the more you can do accurately. Maybe I am just a weirdo in this respect. I know I am a weirdo in many other respects.
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 Howard, good suggestion, but you really have to work on your timing. Besides, I had no pre-Halloween shows.  

[aigheadish]

Not a weirdo Tom, I'm just impatient in a respect like that. I do understand the feeling when I whittle though... 

[Old Greenhorn]

Yeah well you guys put the idea in my head and after lunch I went out and dropped that sassafras tree that got top damaged and bent in the ice storm 2 years ago. The wife has been on my case to take it down since then but it wasn't dead and I love the few of these we have left. But I also wanted to get some more branch legs started drying now. The tree was 4" on the stump and 27' high. Cut to 2 foot lengths for legs I got 10 and a 7' too 'stick' for a walking stick or something later.

 I stripped 5 legs and the stick so far. Much easier in the fresh green state. I am adding to my already large pile of shavings to throw in the stove.



But no fire for two days with this heat wave. The shop sure smells good! I love sassafras.

[SwampDonkey]

Sawdust been adding up here to, but from cutting firewood in two for the shop stove. It's 20-22" for the furnace, but I had extra for the shop. I been building an early fire in the shop to keep dampness away. Warm days, but damp air with it. One of these mornings sawdust will build up a fire in the stove. I liked the old stove, the whole top slid to one side on a hinge and I would shovel in the sawdust, drop a piece of newsprint in and strike a match and watch the inferno.  Had a damper on the pipe and a damper plate by the stove door you nudged in and out to feed more air. Very basic stove, but worked great.  That stove is old. I see knockoffs, but not as heavy metal as that is. It was abused a lot to. Not by me, I might add.