My new piece of dirt

[trey_w]

Hey Gang!
It's been a long while since I've been here but basically all my best laid plans got derailed.  I recently bought a small 5.1 acre piece of land close to Caddo Mills, Texas.  About 25-30 miles northeast of Dallas that I'm going to move onto.  There is not a single tree on it.  What I'd like to do is take a long term view and plant trees there that I may be able to harvest in about 25 years or, if I do everything right on my retirement investments, I could just pass it along to my son.  Every short term goal I've ever had has blown up in my face so I thought I'd try a long term one. hehe.  My question is, I'd like to plant hardwoods and I'd like to plant something well worth harvesting when the time comes.  In other words, I know Mahogany and Teak probably won't grow there but I don't want to stick with just Oak either.  (Although I'm planning on having a few of those too)  So does anyone have any ideas what I could put there?  I've still got a lot of research to do about growing trees but at least I'd like to narrow it to the trees I'm planning on planting.

Thanks,
Trey

[Jeff]

Trey, we have the prefect Forester here to answer some questions, but you may have to be patient in getting an answer as he has just had a time of it with Rita.

[Texas Ranger]

I'm up and running, sorta.  Trey, get a soil profile and post it here, or email to me.  Best in your area could be any number of trees.  Pecans come to mind, for the fruit.  Walnut and cherry, but very soil dependent.  If you have black land, forget trees and go with some other crop.

The local A&M extension agent can run the soil type for you.

[trey_w]

Sigh, I'm pretty sure it's black land, that would fit in with the way things have been going lately.  My brother lives a couple hundred yards away and that's about how I'd describe his land.  Black dirt that when it rains, so much mud sticks to the bottom of your shoes you get taller as you walk.  He has a ton of hackberry, one pecan and one ash tree I think.  I'll get the test though just to be sure.  Thanks for the info.

[SwampDonkey]

If black land is what I'm used to here, white ash, basswood (a significant soil improver), sugar maple (sub spec. Acer barbatum) and yellow birch thrive on it. But I think they would have a time of it that far south (non natives), 'cept maybe the white ash. Texas Ranger would be more helpful than I am because I'm not familiar with your climate and forest types.

[Texas Ranger]

Swamper, black land down here is a hydraulic clay, expansion and contraction extream with weather conditions.  Hard to plant anything, other  than row crops (think cotten in the old days).  Slick as goose grease when wet, and cracks you can drop a wheel in when dry.  Using a coulter to break it, and the next dry spell that coulter cut will open like the grand canyon.

[Kevin]

Make it a cemetary and start planting people, there's money in that and good demand.  ;D

[DanG]

 :D :D

Kevin, ya might be onto something there.  Talk about your long-term investments! ;D 8) :D :D

[Jeff]

Just think, you could be the head guy and one day tell everyone you got at least 100 people under ya, but truthfully Kevin, I heard that having cemeteries was a dieing business  :-\.

[SwampDonkey]

Hmmm, my uncle has done this for 30 years and I can tell ya it's a dead end job. ;D

[maple flats]

Planting people might not work either. Just think, if the land cracks like the grand canyon the vaults would be exposed. Some people would not want that! :'(

[Riles]

Trey, here's a little more detailed explanation of what the Ranger is asking for.

Pretty much every piece of dirt in the country has been mapped and analyzed for soil properties. This is all recorded in something called a Soil Survey. Each county has a soil survey and in it there are all kinds of recommendations of what you could do with your little piece of heaven. In your case, it will specifically recommend what type of trees grow best in your mud. In the Soil Survey will be aerial photographs which you hunt around until you find your property. From that picture you have to find what's called the map unit. That will specifically name your soil and from that you can find all the details.

The Soil Surveys are coming online, just like everything else these days, but Hunt County isn't up yet. All the analysis is there ( http://soildatamart.nrcs.usda.gov/Report.aspx?Survey=TX231&UseState=TX ) but no pictures that I could find and until we have the name, we're only shooting in the dark. Even if we could zero in on the name, we don't know where you live...

The black land people are referring to is called a Vertisol. The clay shrinks and swells so much with moisture that it shreds the roots of seedlings. You may or may not have it. You could have it on half your property and not on the rest. Can't tell until you see the pictures. (And even then, there's no substitute for digging the hole and looking.) That's where your extension agent comes in. He can pull out the book, look at the pictures and give you the name. If he's any good, he can tell you what it means too. If not tell us and we'll show off.

Riles
"Halfway through forest soils class and I still have an A!"

[trey_w]

Well, I'm actually closing on my piece of dirt tomorrow.  Gonna try to buy the tractor (Ford D4000 Diesel) the guy is using to mow it at the same time.  Somehow I seem to be more excited about the tractor, go figure.  I'm going to call the extension agent and try to get the test done tomorrow too.  Big day tomorrow, wish me luck!

Trey

[Riles]

I checked through some of the soils in the county and it doesn't look too good. The odds are not in your favor for quality trees. On a good site (not many, apparently) you can grow loblolly pine. That not to say trees won't grow there, they just won't grow well.

I guess you could always plant cinder blocks and grow cars. (Or do you trap 'em?)

By the way, when the extension agent gives you the name of your soil, use the link above and select it and then use the pull down menu to find "Forestland Productivity." Hit the "Generate Report" button and you'll get a list of the best trees for the soil and the recommendation for which one to plant. It's geared towards recommending commercially viable quantities of trees.

[Riles]

New Soil Tool! (Now I sound like my forest soils professor. The guy genuinely gets excited about dirt.)

http://websoilsurvey.nrcs.usda.gov/app/WebSoilSurvey.aspx

This one has the aerial photos that allow you to zoom in until you find your property and will name your soil. From that you can get all the analysis.

Riles

[SwampDonkey]

I used it to see if it had info for a field next to my woodlot in Bridgewater, Maine. No available data.  :-\ I can see my woodlot and houselot on their photography, seems to be about a mile overlap into Canada.

[trey_w]

DOH!!  Well I didn't get the tractor.  :( I did pick up the soil sample kit and I'm hoping to get that done this weekend.  I'll keep you posted.

[Riles]

Now a soil sample kit will analyse the chemistry of the soil, not the physics. The shop doing the work will tell you what fertilizers and nutrients to add to grow a specific crop, but you usually have to tell them what the crop is you're trying to grow. (At least that's the way it worked with the NC state agencies).

You still need the name of the soil to get the physical properties. The new link I posted above will accept an address for you to zoom in on the picture or you can pm me with the address and I'll look it up for you.

Riles