Raise prices or add blade fee?

[NewYankeeSawmill]

I think I just wrapped up my last job for the year (truck's going into the shop for head gaskets, be at least a week)... Reflecting back, I spent more money on blades than I anticipated. I want to adjust my pricing to recoup this cost.

I currently charge $50/hr, and when I get on site and setup the mill, the first thing I do (in front of customer so they can see, I point it out to them), is throw a fresh blade on straight out the box. It's kind of a sales-tool: Look, I'm putting on a brand new blade just for you!

Currently I only charge the customer for a blade if I hit metal/stone in the log. If the blade is starting to get dull (but still has life in it), and the customer requests a change, I change it and eat the cost. I anticipated the blades lasting longer and being able to cover the costs w/ my hourly rate. If this persists throughout the job, I advise the customer they are going to start paying for them. So far it has been obvious the blade is getting dull, and it's time to change, I was just hoping to squeeze a little more out of it...

I'm losing money on blade changes, and not re-couping the costs when sawing oaks, hickory, etc.

Large hard-woods last about 1-2 logs per blade, pine/poplar I can get 5-7 logs per blade, depending. Todays job I had to throw a new blade on for the last log, darned thing was diving and weaving on me w/ the old blade(s). Took half-hour to cut the log. I made $25, paid $25 for the blade... That's not sustainable.

I can solve the problem by increasing my hourly rate (say $60-65/hr) and spread the cost of the blades across all customers, or change-up how I bill and add a blade-fee. I would advise customer up front the first blade is on me, you buy all the other one's we use, and add it in to the bill at the end, $30 a pop. I can explain this away by discussing hardwoods vs. softwoods, posts vs. slabs, etc.

I'm leaning towards the blade fee as I feel this is more fair, however I worry this may confuse the less-savvy customers. When cutting w/a dull blade, the slower feed-speed means they are still 'paying more' for me to saw w/ the old-blade... and they notice it. With a blade-fee, more demanding customers are welcomed to stump up and pay for the quality cutting they are looking for. Likewise the guy making posts out of pine-tree's doesn't end up paying for blades the guy w/ huge oak logs is going to burn through... The customer pays for the blades they use. This also allows me to keep my hourly rate low, which is an attractive sales-point for me.

My concern is w/ an hourly-rate my customers seem to anticipate the bill being $XXX, and when the "extra-fee's" are added in it could be a significantly different number. One all-oak customer used up 6-blades in one day (@$30ea = 180 bucks!) I'm afraid that may be a problem, whereas an hourly increase is easy to digest (and I'm already cheap to hire). However I feel personally the blade-fee idea is more fair - it doesn't spread the costs to all customers, only the customers using up the blades.

[fluidpowerpro]

Just a few comments.
When I first started I tried a blade fee and it didn't go over very well. I quickly dropped it.

When Im sawing I'm the one that determines when the blade gets changed and it is when I see the first sign of waves. Even if a customer thought waves are ok, I wouldn't keep sawing. I imagine at a later date the customer showing his wood to others and they see a pile of wavy boards.

I would suggest charging more so you can afford to do the best work you can.

I few years ago I invested in a sharpener and setter from Woodland Mills. It's not a high end machine but it does an adequate job.
Now that I have a sharpener I find my quality has improved greatly and its because I no longer try to push a blade too far.

[WV Sawmiller]

  I suggest raising the hourly rate as I consider blade usage as part of my doing business unless I hit foreign objects or the logs are obviously real dirty. If your costs have gone up you need to pass them along - sawing for profit s not a benevolent activity IMHO.

  If you know certain logs require more blades another option would be to have an hourly rate based on the wood type/species but I would think that is too complicated as many of my jobs are mixed species.  I make out on the soft woods like pine and poplar and make less on the hard woods like the oaks and we don't even want to think about hickories.

  Are you using the right blade for the species? I use 4 degree DH blades for everything now. I used to use 7 & 10  degree for softer woods but then I'd hit a knot and make a ripple that a 4 degree would have cut through so I ap pretty much standardized on 4 degree blades now.

    BTW - I have never had a customer ask me to change a blade. I have had many ask me why I was stopping to change a blade and I will tell them I can feel it struggling or I spotted the start of a wave at a knot or something they had not noticed. If they are noticing degraded performance before you do I'd re-evaluate my criteria for my blade changes.

[NewYankeeSawmill]

Are you using the right blade for the species? I use 4 degree DH blades for everything now. I used to use 7 & 10  degree for softer woods but then I'd hit a knot and make a ripple that a 4 degree would have cut through so I ap pretty much standardized on 4 degree blades now.

That is definitely a portion of my situation. So far I have only bought blades from Norwood. 10-degree general use blades, this new box (used today) were 7-degree 'hardwood' blades. Not impressed.
I ordered a box of blades this week from one of the FF sponsors in Michigan, they're 7-degree 'woodmizer' blades. Will see if they perform better. I tried the Norwood BlueFlex "high performance" blades, ran terrible, standard blades were better.

Having to stock a bunch of different blades gets expensive... But that's certainly an option here. I will look into those 4-degree blades. The 7-degree ran well through pine and cedar today.

[NewYankeeSawmill]

BTW - I have never had a customer ask me to change a blade. I have had many ask me why I was stopping to change a blade and I will tell them I can feel it struggling or I spotted the start of a wave at a knit or something they had not noticed. If they are noticing degraded performance before you do I'd re-evaluate my criteria for my blade channes.

Push it until it starts to smoke!!!     
I joke, but... customers have noticed I'm walking slower, and the sawdust turns to powder, not just dust. I notice it half-a-log ago, but I'm buying the blade, I keep silent, you're darned right I'm going to run it all the way. I also see this as problematic. Hence why I like the idea of putting the ball ($$$) in the customer's court. You want a better, faster cut? Pay up.

[Magicman]

I agree with both Tom & Howard above. 

If you wait until you see signs of the blade being dull you are waiting much too long.  Change the blade when it is no longer sharp, not when it dulls.  Never try to get "one more log" out of a blade because the back pressure/bend/stress is killing the life of your blades.  I decide when the blade gets changed. 

I only use one blade profile; Turbo 7° (7/39) Wood-Mizer DoubleHard.  They match my engine hp and sawing speed, but they may not work for you and your sawing profile.

Normal blade use is similar to fuel, expendable and part of the job.  I normally use 4 blades per day, but sometime 3 and other times 5-6.  My resharpening cost is ~$15 per blade.

Of course metal, etc. strikes cost the customer $45 each.  This pays for the blade plus my time digging the damaged blade plus foreign stuff from the log.

Your hourly sawing rate is too low (for me) and is not leaving you anything to establish a maintenance fund within your sawing business.  I have no way of knowing what your sawing production rate is but I do know that the customer has to realize value for his $$ or you are out of the sawing business.

[fluidpowerpro]

I forgot to mention that its just no fun sawing with a dull blade. 
Happiness is a sharp blade.

[NewYankeeSawmill]

Normal blade use is similar to fuel, expendable and part of the job.  I normally use 4 blades per day, but sometime 3 and other times 5-6.  My resharpening cost is ~$15 per blade.

Of course metal, etc. strikes cost the customer $45 each.  This pays for the blade plus my time digging the damaged blade plus foreign stuff from the log.

Your hourly sawing rate is too low (for me) and is not leaving you anything to establish a maintenance fund within your sawing business. 

Appreciate the advice @Magicman !
Yes, I try to keep my advertised hourly rate low to attract customers (cheapest other local sawyer is $60/hr w/ a woodland mills saw). Once I've got a multi-month backlog, I hope to increase rates and be more selective.

I prefer the idea of a blade-charge, but I fear the 'hidden fee's' aspect of a blade-charge may turn some customers off, whereas simply increasing my hourly rate is more digestable... but that places the burden on all customers, not the ones burning up the blades.
Thanks for your input!

- Kevin

[NewYankeeSawmill]

I forgot to mention that its just no fun sawing with a dull blade. 
Happiness is a sharp blade.

Boy is that ever true!

[NewYankeeSawmill]

Your hourly sawing rate is too low (for me) and is not leaving you anything to establish a maintenance fund within your sawing business.

Yes! That's the issue I'm struggling with. 100% !
Should I just bump up the base rate to accommodate the 'costs of doing business', or push the charges on the customer's creating them (e.g. hardwood customers.) I don't want to have 2 sets of rates (depending on wood), so I shy away from the hourly increase, but I'm wondering if maybe 'meeting in the middle' isn't a solution? Raise rates a little, be more frugal with eating the costs of a blade change...

[barbender]

 You're not getting enough money. And pushing dull blades is false economy, because that blade is going to break sooner. 

Pricing models are always kind of a challenge, and some things work better in different locations it seems. I think what what customers want, is to have a good idea what the service is going to cost them. I would if it was me. I know it can be scary to raise prices when you are trying to keep enough work coming in.

I saw by the board foot most of the time. It's easier for the customer to know what they're getting. If they have really low production wood like cedar, then I charge by the hour. 

You could charge by the board foot (gives customer clarity) but let them know that if and when production drops below a certain level, you will go to hourly. 

Let's just throw out .50/bf for a price. If you saw 160 bf/hr, that gives you $80/hr. If the production drops below that level, charge $80/hr minimum. That encourages your customer to keep the logs well prepped and staged, because if production drops their bf price increases. 

I'm just throwing those numbers out for something to chew on. I don't know what your production averages an hour. Either way, you have to bring the rates up to pay for consumables. 

A lot of times by being the cheapest provider, you are steering all of the cheapskates towards yourself. You'll never get ahead working for them👎👎

[Ianab]

My opinion is that blades should be like fuel, maintenance, repairs, depreciation  etc. You add up all your expenses for the month, add in the profit / hourly pay you need to make, and that's what you need to be charging per hour. If you can't get that $, pack up and go do something else. 

Sure some jobs are going to use more blades, and you can charge for metal strikes (at your discretion). If you know the blade is on it's last bit of life you can let the client off, but a new blade they should pay for (it's their nail that it hit). But you average over the month / year is what matters. You will get some sweet jobs where everything runs smoothly, and sometimes you think you should have just stayed in bed that day.

Keep the pricing simple, and accept that some jobs are going to go better than others. 

[cutterboy]

A lot of times by being the cheapest provider, you are steering all of the cheapskates towards yourself. 

I think barbender is right about that. These are the customers that cry and whine over every dime they spend. Raising your hourly rate might be the best idea. Personally I don't like the idea of a blade fee, not at all.

[NewYankeeSawmill]

Thanks for the input guys!

I also think there is a 'cost to doing business' @Ianab , and you're right: blades, maintenance, fuel, etc. are part of that. I don't like the idea of nickle-and-diming customers, and a straight hourly-rate is more palatable to the types of customers I'm getting. They don't understand boardfeet, and many jobs are loaded w/ production delays that would negatively effect that (did you see the 2-guys w/ straps picture? !) A lot of what I'm landing are 1-day jobs w/ home-owners wanting to cut-up yard trees. They can wrap their head around per-hour, and the rate has never objected to.

I've seen one other local sawyer has a full-page of conditions and fees that go along w/ hiring him... and even I get tired of reading it halfway through. I was leaning towards a blade-charge b/c it seems most fair to me, but I can see it being off-putting to many of the customers I get, and I already spend a lot of time educating them about this industry. Bumping my rate by 10-bucks nets me another $80/day, or 3 blades, which seems like it would be about right... and is one less thing I have to explain.

Know what you mean about being 'cheap' @barbender , it attracts cheap customers (yesterday's was). I joke w/ them that b/c I'm so cheap, I'm obligated to arrive 2 hours late, hungover, and have a busted old truck that breaks down frequently, it's the contractors creed! If I wanted a shiny new truck I'd have to triple my rates and buy a woodmizer. They all get a chuckle... Don't get me wrong, I see the chicken-or-egg situation there. I'd love a new Denali instead of a 20-year old Dodge, believe me. But I paid cash for the truck, and the bank still owns my house, so...

I'm glad to see you get it, building a business takes time and comes with costs. I did not want to take on any debt to start the business, so I knew that would come with trade-offs and struggles (like a manual Norwood and a beat-up Dodge). It is very nice not owing anyone anything at the end of the day. I expected it to take at least a year to generate semi-consistent work for the business, and we're about there. I was working one or two days a month this summer, I'm up to about one or two a week now. Got a multi-day gig lined up for January already. I can finally afford to fix the truck!   

When I get a backlog of a few weeks, I'll be more selective, but as it stands now I just can't turn those jobs down. Before starting this adventure I inquired w/ 3 local sawyers, who all told me they have months-long backlogged customers waiting. I meet many of these customers myself: "I talked to another guy, but he was 3 months out, you're the only one who would commit to doing it by this date."

I wasn't a fan of rice and chicken patties when I was in college, but it fed me. I'm not a fan of some of my customers either, but it feeds me. I pickup half-a-steer on the 19th! I'm just happy I'm not eating beans. The new truck can wait.

[Magicman]

I see that you have a "manual" sawmill.  Thus said, there is no way that your bf yield per hour can even come close to a higher production sawmill.  The customer has to legitimately expect value for his $$ so if your yield is lower then your hourly rate has to be lower.  It's not the customer's fault that you have a lower production sawmill.

It's well known that I saw bf rate rather than hourly as barbender described above.  On the rare occasions that I saw hourly, that hourly rate will be equivalent to my bf rate.

[Nebraska]

30.00$ blade, my source is cheaper and is also my resharpening service. I ups the blades back and forth. Yes it's an expense but 1/3 the cost of a new blade.  I would charge up front for a new blade every stop, saw at your hourly rate plus a new blade fee for every change (resharpened or not).

My mill is a little underpowered at 22 hp so I only use 4 degree bands, unless I am sawing cottonwood or pine for dimensional stuff the I have some seven degree bands I consider disposable. 

[SawyerTed]

I agree with the others, raise rates and include blade replacement and sharpening cost in the rate unless a blade hits foreign material in a log.  My customers pay for a new blade for damaged blades like the other sawyers here.

I charge an hourly rate based on my average production.  Much like Magicman, my hourly rate and board feet/hour rate are nearly equal.  My costs are covered either way.

Blades are just part of doing business as are tires for the sawmill for example.  A portion of my rates include replacement of wear parts, fuel, oil, filters, atf, hydraulic oil and so forth - maintenance and repair. 

Most folks expect tradespeople to include the routine consumables in the rate unless specified by law (tire disposal or appliance disposal here).  Whether true or not, the shop fees, consumables fees and other add-on fees tacked on bills seem like money grubbing.

As far as blade changing is concerned, my customers pay for the straightest best quality lumber I can produce in the fastest manner possible.  Sawing with a less than sharp blade runs counter to that. 

At such a low rate, are you subsidizing the sawmill with other income?  In essence "buying work" by working below costs and at a rate below competitors?  That's not sustainable. 

[Old Greenhorn]

I would have chosen both if I could.
I have been following you along for a while now even if I don't comment much. Your business plan is nearly identical to my thinking, for better or worse. No debt, grow the business as you make more money. collect clients and keep a stellar reputation in tact. I get it.
But when you (we) do that you have to be nimble and recognized changes and learning opportunities. "Problem" is a synonym for "learning opportunity".
I see, as do others, a few options. Frist is: Have two different rates, one for hardwoods and an one for softwoods. The difference is easily explainable and any of your clients, no matter how green should grasp it.
The second option is also one I would take together with the first. You have to raise your rates. As pointed out by s3everal, if you are not making enough money to build your maintenance fund and have contingency money on hand, you are headed for a brick wall. Your mill is new and happy, but that won't last long sawing regularly. Stuff will break or wear out. That fund is not a luxury, it is a part of business and needs to come out of your rate.
Yes, I hear all the reasons you stated for trying to keep things low and I get it. I was, and in some cases still are there, but yo cannot ignore the cost of doing business. You also can't compete with others who are just sawing for beer and video game money.
When I started selling Mushroom logs I charged $4./ea. At the end of the season I looked at my data and realized that after costs, I was making $11.00/hr. Not good, so I went to $5./log. That was better and my efficiencies improved and I was doing 'OK' but lacked the cash to improve the business. For two years now I have been charging $6./log and life has gotten much better. Some clients order a little less, but that's ok. My back is getting old fast, I won't be able to do this much longer, but at least the logs cover a profit plus my chiro bills. But realizing I can't do this forever (a 'problem') has me thinking on how to solve this. So my solution going forward ('learning opportunity') is to begin offering inoculated logs at about $25-30./log. Less cutting, more and easier labor, much higher profit margin. It also let's me spread out the season to sell these all year long.

My point is you have to keep careful track of every expense and study it, then make good choices going forward. If you don't adjust as you go, you will likely shrivel up. I think you are doing great, you just have to keep working at improving it. By the way, don't get scared off when somebody turns you away because you cost too much. That can be a sign you are on the right track too. You need to cull out those 'tire kickers' right away.

[Ron Wenrich]

Many years ago when I was sawing on a circle mill, I had a custom rate of 20 Cents/bf and $20/nail.  If the customer hesitated, then they weren't sure about the metal in a log.  Custom sawing wasn't a main income driver for the mill.

Maybe add something in about hitting metal.  Saw maintenance is on you, IMO. 

[WV Sawmiller]

  Its not a straight line cost but the guy having you saw hard woods that use more blades is paying a little more than the customer with the soft woods I'd bet just because you normally have to saw a little slower on those hard logs than the softer ones.

    I'm in the bf camp as my customers understand what a 1000 bf of lumber looks like or I can explain it really quick. A customer will always ask you how many bf you saw per hour and you will always have to say "It depends". Then you have to explain how the type of wood affects sawing speed as does the size boards being cut (You can cut 8/4 faster than 4/4) and how well prepared he is speeds or slows down your sawing. Also how fast is your help? Are they waiting on you or are you waiting on them (I Assume your customer provides the help - mine does.). BTW - you do need to be able to give him a reasonable "Range" of what you normally saw.

    How do you figure the hourly rate? Is it engine hours? Is it from the time you start your truck in the morning or the time you get to the job site or when you are set up and crank the mill? All are legitimate but you need to be dang sure the customer knows before you start the job and stick to that. If you are charging on site time then your customers are paying you to change the blades so the more blades used the more it costs him too - I.e. the guy with the hard logs is paying more than the guy with the soft logs because of more blade changes.

    I rarely do hourly jobs but when I do I use the engine meter and I never shut the mill off between log loading or other delays like I normally do for bf jobs so the faster the customer gets those boards off and the next log on the loading arms the less it is going to cost him. If I change blades or have a short breakdown the mill is off then so that is my time and not the customer expense. On some jobs at the start I tell the customer to set certain logs aside as they will be hourly while the rest will be bf because of the nature of the log or how he wants them sawed (Squared for posts, cookies, quartersawed, etc ).

  Remember the longer it takes you to finish the job the more it costs the customer because he is often paying help, may be renting equipment, or using his valuable time to be there so the faster you get there, get set up and get finished the less it costs him.

  Customers complaining about costs? Maybe I am too cheap because it does not happen with me or they must be complaining to others after I leave and if that is the case why are they calling me come back? I have trouble calling them customers and more often just tell folks I made a new friend because I enjoy working with/for them. Most are excited to see the process and love seeing the boards, slabs and craft pieces coming off the log that they know came off their property.

  It takes time and planning but you need to be real sure of what you are doing and present yourself as the pro. Come in, look the site over, make any quick changes you need to the set up (I've had customers expect me to set up uphill from long logs and I'd go set up on the other side for speed and common sense) or have them show me a log pile and tell me they were going to bring me the logs a couple hundred feet away then be amazed (and thrilled) when I said there was no need as I could set up right there at the logs and cut the time and handling in half.

    Most customers are very impressed when I come in, drive or back up on a couple of boards I brought to level the mill side to side (Nothing is level in WV), drop the outriggers on one end then move the head and do the other and have the shovel and spud bar to make a hole for the landing gear feet or short boards to raise them as needed and be ready to saw in 10-15 minutes from arrival.

  I am anal about bringing the tools and equipment I need, they are always in the same place on my truck so I don't have to go look for a specialty item like a magic hook or axe and wedge if we need them. And don't even think about coming to the site then filling the gas tank on the mill - things like that you do before the job.

    I bring a big chainsaw in case I have to cut a log or big knot that I rarely use and I bring a small electric chainsaw or cordless circle saw to cut stickers or so they can salvage a 3-4 ft board off the scrap pile. These are items a new customer does not know he is going to need.

    Before sawing I discuss and brief them on safety and off limits areas on the mill when I am sawing and also where they can and can't work for maximum efficiency and to stay out of my way. They are pleased when I show them they can move a trailer or truck near the end of the mill and slide the boards directly on instead of having to carry heavy boards a long way. It makes it easier and faster on them. Assume the customer knows nothing about sawing or log handling and proceed accordingly. They often don't know how a cant hook works and I remember two brothers at cross purposes trying to load a log one time and looking like 2 monkeys trying to hump a football. You have to show them then they do okay. Time spent training the help is a great investment.

  I help them set different dunnage for different lengths and thickness so at the end of the job their wood is organized for better use for them and I can tally it quicker and more accurately. They don't know and will set up 4' wide stacks of lumber then realize their tractor or skid steer with its 3' forks can't move the stacks. They will try to set up 8' wide stacks of lumber that will never get air flow and most will rot or plan to completely cover the stack with a tarp if you don't advise them at the start.

    Remember the customer is not just buying your sawing service and renting your mill for the day - he is paying for your advice and expertise so learn all you can and pass it along to them.

    If its not fun you need to be selling lady's shoes or something else for a living or the extra income.

[dougtrr2]

Raise your hourly rate.  As a customer it concerns me that you are essentially saying, if you want quality, pay for more blades.  Your goal should be a quality product and charge accordingly.

I had some walnut and oak cut by a member here (thanks Patton) and was pleased with the results.  For my use and age, I think I almost have a lifetime supply, but it I ever needed sawing services again, I wouldn't shop around, I would just call him and pay hist rate.

I just got done processing some ash that my brother had milled by a circular saw mill in a different part of the state.  The difference in quality was like night and day.  Some boards had significant taper from end to end, like 3/4".  The blade must have had significant wobble, it took many more jointer face passes to remove all marks.  I would never use that sawyer, regardless of price.

One other off topic example of quality and how it might affect your business.  We had visited a BBQ restaurant several times.  The last time we went my wife's pulled pork sandwich had large chunks of unshredded pork.  We didn't say anything at the time, but I sent them a private email expressing my concern.  The owner responded and offered free meal, BUT, he also added that he noticed his staff hadn't properly done their jobs.  If he had come out of the kitchen and checked to see if there were any issues we would still be going there.  The fact that he knew put out a poor quality product and decided to not do anything unless someone complained means will will never go back.

Good luck, put out a quality product and charge accordingly.

Doug in SW IA

[TreefarmerNN]

Like others, I think your rate is too low.  I would avoid a blade charge for dull blades but I do charge for metal strikes. 

I would throw one other possibility out there.  Reward good customers by giving them a discount at the end of the job.  Don't advertise it or even offer up front but if it's someone who was a pleasure to deal with, had good logs and generally someone you want as a customer knocking off $25 bucks or so will make them feel good.  But tell them it's because they are are good customer or the logs were such a pleasure to saw, or they wanted 8/4 lumber or whatever makes them a good customer.  They will feel good and it's cheap advertising for you as long as it's only for the "good" customers.

[YellowHammer]

I spent more money on blades than I anticipated. I want to adjust my pricing to recoup this cost.

I'm losing money on blade changes, and not re-couping the costs when sawing oaks, hickory, etc.

I made $25, paid $25 for the blade... That's not sustainable.

I can solve the problem by increasing my hourly rate (say $60-65/hr) and spread the cost of the blades across all customers, or change-up how I bill and add a blade-fee.

To me, doing the math, your net profit is being eaten up by a routine consumable, a blade, and you must raise your price from $50 t $65?  That's a 23% increase just to cover a sawmill band?  That means you are way undercharging for your operation, for whatever your inputs costs are.  

There are three conditions of a business, 1.  Out of business, 2.Going out of business and 3.Staying in business.  To me you seem to be in condition 2, but have recognized it, and you have a choice to make, go to condition 1 or go to condition 3.  

The same people who will whine that you are charging too much will also whine when you go out of business.  So making your business decision based on them is meaningless.  I have this conversation with customers several times a day about mine and other prices across the industry, not only lumber, but plumbing, roofing, tree cutting etc, and tell them my prices are "Spreadsheet Prices" and the spreadsheet doesn't lie.  Simple and not negotiable.    

[NewYankeeSawmill]

I see that you have a "manual" sawmill.  Thus said, there is no way that your bf yield per hour can even come close to a higher production sawmill.  The customer has to legitimately expect value for his $$ so if your yield is lower then your hourly rate has to be lower.  It's not the customer's fault that you have a lower production sawmill.

I seem to recall you and I have had disagreements about this topic, before? Sounds like you understand why my rate is what it is!

Boardfeet makes sense if you have Hydraulic Woodmizer, but not w/ a manual Norwood. For some reason I can't get a lot of folks here to understand their business model doesn't fit everybody else. Glad you see it now!

[WV Sawmiller]

  I respectfully disagree on the bf rate being only for people with hydraulic/faster mills. I think it should be the basis for all sawing. You might have to charge a higher bf rate to be profitable just like you now see you need to raise your hourly rate because of unexpected consumable/blade costs.

    I'd base my bf rate on sawing normal, decent, well prepared and properly stacked logs so I can come in and set up and saw them quickly and get out.

    If the customer does not meet those conditions then I drop back to an hourly rate but make sure it is obvious the hourly rate is more than a bf rate would have been if the logs had been properly prepared. I am clear to my customers normal is bf rate and abnormal is hourly because I came to make a profit as well as providing a service.

    Its like log prep or stacking or other related tasks. Tell the customer up front you don't like to do them but if it is necessary you will do so but require adequate compensation. Adequate to me means I am making more than I would have made just sawing lumber. I like it when a customer says "For that rate I can just do it myself or hire another unskilled helper." That is what I have been trying to tell him to do all along.

    The exception for me is specialty sawing like posts, beams and cabin logs. They go fast and we produce a lot of bf quickly. I find it is easier on me to just calculate them on hourly rates and the customer appreciates the savings. I don't want to waste my time trying to tally them.

  I have not done it but have always considered a per log rate but then I'd have to sit down and determine and enforce a good, fair and understandable definition of such logs.  I'd expect I'd end up with a range of $25 logs, $35 logs, $100 logs etc. It would help encourage the customer to eliminate some of the small stuff that slow me sown and would cost him more. The advantage to the customer is he would know before ever starting exactly what his costs would be.