Wooden ladders

KWood255 · May 30, 2025, 07:41:27 AM

Good morning folks, sorry if this is the wrong section of the FF to post...

I have a large industrial customer who we supply significant quantities of timber products to monthly. They have inquired with us to build/supply a high quantity of emergency ladders for underground. These will be built from full dimensional 2x4x16 with 1x4 rungs, recessed into the vertical 2x4's. Initially I thought this was a great opportunity in the slow times to build these...exceptionally simple design with common materials around the mill site.

Last week we took a small "test" order of 12' units, which was way more time consuming than I anticipated, contrary to my quote!

I already had the materials ready. From
There, I trimmed/squared the ends, measured and marked the pairs for cutting the notches. I used a skill saw to cut depth and square edges of the notches, then used a 3 1/4hp handheld router to complete the 1x4 notches. To say if was slow and labor intensive may be an underestimate! I was quite disappointed.

Does anyone have a suggestion or tool recommendation that would speed up the notching process? I feel that multiple rips with the skill would be just as slow, unless a 1/2" kerf blade is available...dado? Not sure if that's realistic either.

Stephen1 · May 30, 2025, 08:03:31 AM

all time consuming. Put the upright together in a bunch , then cross cut them all at once with a chainsaw. You can get a pretty smooth finish brushing the notch with a chainsaw.

WV Sawmiller · May 30, 2025, 08:04:52 AM

Hopefully somebody smarter and with more experience with tools will chime in with the right answer.

I'd think you could line up a bunch of uprights, mark/make the top and bottom cuts with a radial arm type saw or circular saw then come back with a circle saw and cut the centers out. I guess if you used a dado blade and made a wide top and bottom cut you could use a jig saw or band saw to cut the centers out if that would be faster than your current process.

jpassardi · May 30, 2025, 08:08:06 AM

Cutting diagonal wall bracing for B&B siding I have experienced the same. Router doesn't cut efficiently so I used a circular saw but that leaves chisel cleanup - both are not efficient.

Sorry - I hate to get legal/lawerish but you may want to consider your liability if someone falls from one of the ladders.

WV Sawmiller · May 30, 2025, 08:19:21 AM

Would it be easier to make the cuts if you were using a 1x6 as a step instead of a 1X4, if the customer would agree? Lumber costs would be slightly more but might save you time as you could make the top and bottom (I'll call them limit cuts) cuts as I described above then cut most of the center wood with a small circle saw then cut the corners out with a jig saw or wood chisel and mallet.

Big_eddy · May 30, 2025, 09:27:12 AM

I know, they went the way of the dodo, but might this be a case for a radial arm saw with a dado?

Clamp 10-12 uprights together, cut, shift 1/2", cut repeat x 8, shift 12", do it all over again. Still will take time, but less.

Big_eddy · May 30, 2025, 09:37:50 AM

It wouldn't look as nice, but could you attach the treads to the face of the uprights, then nail same thickness spacers to the uprights between the rungs? If I was making two, pretty sure that's how my second one would end up being done.

WV Sawmiller · May 30, 2025, 10:14:05 AM

Eddy,

I thought about posting the spacer idea but I'd be afraid the risk of a narrow spacer splitting and allowing the step to fail would be greater than using the recessed method.

never finished · May 30, 2025, 10:57:32 AM

Back in my days of working in the mobile home business. Before we could order the studs with the notches in them. we made our own. All of the exterior studs had one 1 1/2" notch and two 3 1/2" notches. We used a radial arm saw. it had an 1 1/2" dado stack on it. We had hinged stop blocks on the table. Slide the boards down to the block cut around 5 boards at a time. Flip stop out of the way and continue to the next stop repeat. You would have to slide them back to clean out the center of the wider cuts. One big warning. If you pull the saw too fast it will come to meet you and throw a2x4 at you. Exciting work for 14yo on summer break.

beenthere · May 30, 2025, 11:00:01 AM

Quoteemergency ladders for underground.

Curious, what is the underground ?

Resonator · May 30, 2025, 11:19:09 AM

QuoteSorry - I hate to get legal/lawerish but you may want to consider your liability if someone falls from one of the ladders.

Agreed. I once tried selling a barn ladder I was given by a customer, the only reply I got to the ad was a nastygram telling me I could get sued for selling it.

scsmith42 · May 30, 2025, 08:05:23 PM

I second the suggestion to use a large radial arm saw with a dado blade in it.

I would build a fixture so that the wood was held at the correct angle with a stop plate so that you did not need to measure or anything. You would simply put your board in it run it to the stop pull the radial arm through it with the dado And then move the board to the next stop et cetera

doc henderson · May 30, 2025, 09:35:55 PM

LeftFinger · May 30, 2025, 10:10:16 PM

I always thought the correct name for that saw was a radial harm saw

Larry · May 30, 2025, 11:00:56 PM

Quote from: KWood255 on May 30, 2025, 07:41:27 AMThey have inquired with us to build/supply a high quantity of emergency ladders for underground.

High quantity to me suggests a CNC router solution. Gang up the ladder sides and let the machine cut the recess. Either buy a CNC or contract the work out. I have a friend that just bought a big Legacy CNC and is actively seeking work, so it might be an idea worth exploring in your area.

To manually cut the recess I think the RAS with a dado blade is the best solution. Here again gain up the sides. For any quantity I would want a old Dewalt or a newer Original saw.

Machinebuilder · May 31, 2025, 07:48:34 AM

in the best forum tradition of spending someone elses money

Mafell Groove cutter

caveman · May 31, 2025, 08:13:42 AM

This is similar to the way we built our lumber racks, with a 2x recessed into a dado. We used a radial arm saw with a dado blade to cut the notches. The saw actually sawed smoother pushing the saw head through the boards rather than pulling. We'd pull through the initial cut very carefully to prevent it from climbing, slide the board over and push the rest through.

Magicman · May 31, 2025, 08:53:19 AM

This question was sorta asked and never answered above:

I see much more to this project than the mechanics of actually building ladders. As I read the OP, these will be standby escape ladders for some sort of underground facility. ?? As such they will possibly be periodically inspected & certified. The 2X4 runners will need or have to be knot free #1 grade with no slope of grain. Will the runners and rungs be planed or left rough sawn? Will the corners be rounded? Will they be stored in a dry environment where rot is not an issue?

I say this because in a former "telephone company" life our ladders were periodically safety inspected and certified by an independent outfit. I saw many ladders that I thought were perfectly good, get sawed in half because they failed.

I am only saying that you should fully investigate and cover your butt before you build ladders for industrial or commercial use. Maybe you have but that was not disclosed.

KWood255 · June 01, 2025, 09:17:59 PM

Quote from: Machinebuilder on May 31, 2025, 07:48:34 AMin the best forum tradition of spending someone elses money

Mafell Groove cutter

Now we are talking! Who knew such a machine exists! Thanks MB.

KWood255 · June 01, 2025, 09:23:32 PM

Quote from: Magicman on May 31, 2025, 08:53:19 AMThis question was sorta asked and never answered above:

I see much more to this project than the mechanics of actually building ladders. As I read the OP, these will be standby escape ladders for some sort of underground facility. ?? As such they will possibly be periodically inspected & certified. The 2X4 runners will need or have to be knot free #1 grade with no slope of grain. Will the runners and rungs be planed or left rough sawn? Will the corners be rounded? Will they be stored in a dry environment where rot is not an issue?

I say this because in a former "telephone company" life our ladders were periodically safety inspected and certified by an independent outfit. I saw many ladders that I thought were perfectly good, get sawed in half because they failed.

I am only saying that you should fully investigate and cover your butt before you build ladders for industrial or commercial use. Maybe you have but that was not disclosed.

Very valid points MM. These are emergency ladders for a mine. All material is clear with no knots...all rough. As for the environment, I cannot speak to that.

For a variety of reasons I am pulling away from any future bids to build these. Way to time consuming, especially when I could be much more productive staying within my wheelhouse.

Magicman · June 01, 2025, 09:35:01 PM

I was asking curiosity questions, not questioning you. The way to handle such that you really don't want to do is to double your price. Next time, double that.

I know a very successful builder that specializes in searching for projects that fail to get a bid. He will then go in with a "top of the world" bid. He is not concerned with those that he does not get, but he does quite well with the ones that he does get.