Quartersawing on bandmills

[chainsaw_louie]

On a swingblade mill, quartersawing is straightforward and simple, there aren't many choices of how to cut the qs boards because once set up , the log never moves again. 

Enter the bandsaw mill with hydraulic log turners and cutting qs boards takes very different methods.  

I made some paper models to describe the two bandmill qs methods I've seen on FF.  I'd like to get your feedback about if I've described the methods correctly.  

I'd also like to get opinions about the ease and practicality of the methods because moving the heavy cants around on the log deck varies depending on the particular mill, support equipment, helpers and physical strength one has.

(Unfortunately due to posting limits, I have to spread these images across several posts)

Method #1









...method #1 continued next post —>

[chainsaw_louie]

Bandmill QS method #1 continued..





Done method #1

[chainsaw_louie]

Method #2  (aka "reverse jelly-roll" and described by Yellowhammer in his video):









method #2 continued->....

[chainsaw_louie]

Method #2 continued...







Done, method #2

[customsawyer]

There's a method on here called the reverse roll. Yellowhammer has a few videos of it. It started with Bibbyman and Arkansawyer. WDH and myself took it a little further. Yellowhammer came in tuned it even further. It's been demonstrated so many times, at my sawing projects, that some of us got tired of it. In learning it, you are welcome to improve on it, and take it to the next level. Just have to share it on the FF.

[Ianab]

More than one way to skin a cat as they say. Your Method #1 basically does what we do on a swing or twin saw mill, minus the having to move and reposition the part logs. But you roughly divide the log into thirds, and change your sawing pattern from taking 1x8, to 8x1s. 

Any simplified q-sawing pattern is going to result in either some wood that drifts into the rift sawed area, like your first example. You get some perfect q-sawed boards, and they will be the widest ones. Some will be more rift saw, but hopefully still good boards. Or more waste from edging tapered boards. 

The ultimate is radial sawing, where the log gets sliced up like a pizza. All the boards are perfectly Q-sawed, but tapered. So there is a lot of waste in the edging and planing.

What you have to decide, with a band mill especially is if the extra work and waste is worth the increased value of the q-sawed board. Often it is, but other times you want speed and max recovery. No one pays extra for q-sawed 6x2 wall studs, and q-sawed Walnut isn't anything special. But white oak or saligna eucalyptus flooring for example. work much better q-sawed.

[Magicman]

If you are offering a sawing service only, then it depends upon the customer's cut list.  Maybe he wants and will accept various width boards, maybe not.  If you are sawing for yourself, then you are the customer.  If you are sawing to sell, then determine the market for various width boards. 

[YellowHammer]

I've tried pretty much everything over the years, and put out quite a few videos on techniques.  All start with gun barreling and aligning with a tape measure, both ends of the log, which is the slowest part especially with one person sawing, like me.  I am working on a technique to eliminate gun barreling, but it's not ready for prime time yet.  

At the time I got my mill, for years I just followed the herd, used the conventional methods of taking a few center boards, then cutting a log into quarters and missing on boards, going slow, all that.  Very frustrating and slow and came to realize it always had about a 25% miss rate, and I hated it.  It basically turns one log into 4 smaller quarters, each needing to be sawn.  Slow and wasteful.

Old wood wrights would split oak in half with a froe, along the medullary rays, and then take those log halves and further split boards off with a froe, along the medullary rays, one board at a time, plane them, and always yield medullary fleck on their boards.  100% hit rate.  So I thought why couldn't I do that with a band mill, basically split a log in half along medullary rays, just like using a froe, taking one board at a time?  And not have to cut it into quarters?  And when I tried, day after day, I couldn't do it.  Road block after road block, on my LT40, rolling in the conventional direction, with a claw turner, narrow throat, and two plane clamp.  Then it hit me!  Roll it in the opposite direction, agonist the mill, and suddenly I could "froe" boards off, one at a time, and that's how the original Reverse Roll came to be named.  Eureka! Also, the Reverse Roll has been described as "Free Style" sawing, as the log half, as it gets whittled down, sometimes needs to be adjusted cut to cut, to stay on the medullary rays. However, always, 100% fleck.  It was first demonstrated in public at one of Jake's sawmilling Projects, in front of an audience.  

The reverse roll is good for big logs, but I got feedback from users that that although faster than conventional QSing, it took an experienced eye to achieve the best results, and required edging every board. 

So a couple years later I decided it was time to take the next evolution, and over a period of time using my mantra of (Take Steps to Save Steps) I eliminated as many rotations as I could, deleted steps, l and developed the JellyRoll method, which although initially yielded about 75% fleck, now is in the very high 95% and I've done a few videos where it yields 100% fleck on all boards.  It has the advantageous of being crazy fast, I can saw up to 7 or 8 board at a time without dragging back, which is crazy for QSawing, doesn't require looking at the boards one at a tome, and only require a couple rotations per log half.  It also makes a majority of boards with square edged and of consistent width.  It is typically all I use now, except on small logs.  It is as fast or faster than conventional flatsawing because I don't have to identify and rotate out of stress.  

I have done a video where I eliminated the Gun barreling and went to a four sided cant, and that saves even more time.   

I have also done a video on how I do small logs. 

In your digram on the Jellyroll, only three maybe four at most centerboards are cut initially, pulled off and stacked. Too many centerboards will reduce the width of the half logs and so reduce the width of the following Qsawn boards.  The full with centerboards are not split on the mill, they are stacked full width. 

The thing not mentioned is that the JellyRoll can be used for any half log, and this is important, even if it as been fully squared up as a cant for conventional flatsawing and especially if the pith is off center.  So I look for to those, especially since badly off center pith logs have lots of stress and QSing basically eliminate the bow stress, so I flat saw to the pith on the narrow unbalanced side of the log, dealing with the stress best as I can, then switch to the Jelly Roll and get all medullary fleck, no bow, boards from the other half.  When done that way, it eliminates the need to gun barrel.  That's the next evolution, and I'm working on making it fast and usable, because I use it quite a bit, and getting better at it.  I will make a video on it at some point, but I'm not there yet. 

I have noticed several other sawmilers on the Tube are now using the Jelly Roll and that is great.  

The orgiinal Reverse Roll was documented in a series of very lengthy posts here on the Forum, if you haven't found them, it is good reading.  Just remember that is now an outdated technique I rarely use it any more.  I almost always use the Jellyroll, which I named when I realized I had gotten the technique to the point it was so easy and hands off, that I caught myself eating a Little Debbie Jelly Roll while I was sawing!    

  

[chainsaw_louie]

"The orgiinal Reverse Roll was documented in a series of very lengthy posts here on the Forum, if you haven't found them, it is good reading.  Just remember that is now an outdated technique...." -from post above

Thanks for all the feedback.  Maybe I'm attempting the impossible or the impractical on a forum of many folks.  That is, to make a short,  concise summary or a reference on how to accomplish a specific task such as qs on a bandsaw mill.  As you point out YH, there are lots of lengthy posts and videos on this specific topic but finding them all and sorting thru them to find the most recent and avoid  using obsolete methods, isn't so easy.  It would be great if there was a reference section on the forum  that captured the "best practices" so it wasn't necessary for new folks to spend lots of time attempting to learn what is hidden and scattered amongst the many post and videos that have accumulated over the years since FF began.

Speaking purely about efficient management of information, the internet "forum" concept is a social discussion group where everyone has a chance to participate and it's not necessarily an "encyclopedia" where only that latest information is kept and and obsolete information is discarded with each new update. 

With my simple paper diagrams , I wanted to capture the qs techniques I've seen on FF , so far. I'm sure these diagrams are incomplete or maybe not even possible on all bandmills .

@Yellowhammer, as the latest videos and posts of yours are based on a WMzr LT70  with the advanced turner and clamps and software on your setup vs say a lt40, I ask myself: "is that practical or possible on a LT40 or other bandmills with less advanced features or how would it be different?". Just moving the boards and cants on/off/around the mill is a consideration that may affect one's method of work.

There are many details that could be captured in "best practices" type of posting area that would improve the quality of information and the efficiency to view it.... but maybe it would be less social and inevitably exclude some viewpoints and so not welcome or practical to maintain in a forum and is better suited for a "wiki" instead.