Blind milling?

[isassi]

Although new to this forum, I thought I would share with you guys and solicit some thoughts about what it would be like to run a mill being totally blind.  I met Bill, a totally blind and disabled Vietnam vet a few years back, and as I got to know him better, I began taking him to lunch with my guys ( I do construction to pay the bills) and then, anytime I was picking up materials or hauling steel, he came with me. Not much of a life being blind and alone, so even if it isn't convenient, I take him whenever possible and my wife and I have him over for dinner regularly. So to the point: When I bought my Meadows mill and began sawing and working with wood again, Bill got very interested and wants to do more, but for obvious reasons, can't around a big circle mill. He was telling me one day he wanted to buy a bandsaw and then I could square off small logs and he could re-saw them. After thinking about this for months and being sure he wants to do this (he learned wood turning in a blind rehab center, makes beautiful lamps) I took him to see a bandmill, the Oscar 18. After checking around, we found Mr Sawmill in Arkansas and they build the ideal mill. 5 hp electric and easy up and down, and the guys there are working on a verneer set scale with braile numbering to help. I think Bill can do it. He can saw as slow as he wants, kill the motor and check things out with his hands, and start again. So my question: anyone have any thoughts about what might help make this work for him? tips? sugestions? Oh yeah...we sent the deposit for the new mill today and he will have it delivered and set up by the friendly guys at Mr Sawmill in 6 weeks. 

[Frank_Pender]

It sounds as though he has the best thing so far, your friendship.   Thank you for that. 8)

[dail_h]

   WELLDONE SIR 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8)
   When he gets used to it,he'll be as good a sawyer as is on here,you mark my word.

[isassi]

You know Frank, I look at it like I forget he is blind...I have to remember when I get out of my truck not to run off and leave him standing by the door...I mean I never think of his handicap. I would give anything if he could see again. After he lost his wife to cancer, he barely hangs in there. It won't kill me when i go after cedar logs to always cut some extra and bring them to his shop. Believe it or not, he has come out when i'm cutting just to listen to the chainsaw and walk around the trailer feeling the logs. This bandmill is bound to be safer then even standing close to the outfeed conveyor on my big mill...which moves faster then he can catch.

[Tom]

I don't tell blind folks they can't do something.  Some things just aren' meant for the blind.  We had a Mother come to the News Paper looking for work for her blind son.  She thought he should be taught Photography because he couldl work in the "DarkRoom".   We spent some time explaining that a Photographic Dark Room still required sight.

We have a School for the Blind in St. Augustine, Florida. (Ray Charles attended it)   One of the instructors teaches wood working.   He brought some of his work to the Jax Wood Workers Club meeting and it was amazing what he was doing.  Most of it was flawless.  Some had places where the planer had taken out a divot or the glue seam wasn't exactly right.  I was trying to be careful about finding fault and was really bragging on the good work and the good of the mediocre work when he started picking up pieces and pointing out flaws.  He was explaining to me what had caused the problem and how it could or couldn't be remedied.  He knew there were scratches in places where I didn't know there were places.

What was his concern for his students?  It was the tablesaw foremost.  Well that's the biggest concern of a sighted instructor too.

Make sure your friend understands that a bandsaw blade doesn't always stay in the shroud when it breaks.  He will probablly be able handle the rest of the chores.

I think I would have outfitted him with a Resaw rather than a mill, but, what do I know.  Watch him and you won't be able to help but admire his effforts.

[Larry]

Did WM publish an article about a blind or near blind sawyer some years ago?  My memory is faulty, but thinking I read an article in the WM Way.

[isassi]

Thanks Tom for the insight. I never thought about blade breakage. I will give some thought to shielding the operator side of this mill. The reason I discouraged resawing was the weight of the pieces and his ability to move them. He is not in the best of shape, sitting around eating and not much exercise. I think if his interest drives him, he can handle small logs and certainly sqared off cants from the circle mill. One funny thing about Bill. My wife and I were going to a concealed weapon class and Bill wanted to take the class but was wondering if it was legal. We called the instructor, and he said sure, no problem. His attitude was being blind didn't mean he could defend himself...and best thing was out of 12 students, Bill outshot half of them from 25 yards and closer.  :D All the instructor had to do was stand behind him and tell him up/down..left/right...then fire away. Bills control was incredible (GUN CONTROL = USING TWO HANDS ) and he is licenced in Oklahoma for concealed wheapon.

[brdmkr]

I think what you guys are doing is great!  Keep us posted.

[getoverit]

I know how bad I hate it for someone to tell me I cant do something. I can imagine how bad it would be if I knew I could do something because of a handicap, but knew in my heart that I could.

I applaud him for even trying it, and thank God for people like you that can not only be a good friend, but help him with his dream also.

Let us know how it goes?

[Jeff]

I used to sit in the big commercial mill at times and close my eyes and listen to the saw cut while I sawed. I had the benefit of years of experience, but I could see with my ears. I could gig back after the cut and know when I was clear the saw and take another board or sometimes two or three. I only had to open my eyes once the carriage returned to where I had to turn the log. I was experimental but not stupid. :D

I believe without a doubt, that your friend will learn to saw. You tell him I said so. I have more board feet behind me then anyone else here if you think that will encourage him.  I'm not real worried about safety being a bigger issue for him if he knows what a sighted person knows. He doesnt have to see what we see, he has more time then we can imagine already learning how to be safe and sightless.

The sawyer that was at Billsbys before me had a blind buddy and earl let the fellow do everything, including saw a log on the big mill. He used to let him help him drive everywhere and rifle hunt as well to when the laser sites came out.

[isassi]

My wife ( who thinks she is the boss  :D ) is giving me h**l over this. She is afraid he is going to get hurt, She about died when she found out I let Bill on the operators platform of the meadows mill and hold the feed lever and hear that blade song while cutting walnut.  When he bought the wood lathe, I was nervous due to all I could think about was what if a gouge got caught and flipped up and hit him, but he said he can do it and he can....soooooooo....the guys at Mr Sawmill are mounting this ground model mill on 2 foot tall legs..adapting the board scale...and delivering the mill and showing him how to run it. All I provide is some logs...I bet he surprises them and my wife...  8)

[Percy]

 ;D ;D ;D Wow ;D ;D ;D

[logwalker]

It sure helps put everything in pespective for me. I complained that I had no shoes until I met the man with no feet. Where does the line begin?

[isassi]

I don't want to dominate this or bore anyone, but I can't resist one more thread. You know logwalker, I feel strongly about your comment. One of my guys that work for me made the comment that he wished he had Bill's money (he gets a decent pension, lost sight in military), and I asked...you would be blind for money...and he thought and said maybe not, but for enough money...I told him no matter how deep in debt, or how bad off he thought he was...think really hard about a world that is black...listen to tv, never see it...meet people and never know what they look like...rely on others to help with your checkbook...shopping....never driving again...never seeing your kids or grandkids....a good book...and on and on...everything my guy said he was thinking of except listening to music wouldn't mean much without sight...and after he thought about it, he realized what I meant when i said how lucky he is. Yeah its tough to take Bill when I have multiple stops or have to see customers...but all I have to do is remind myself how I would feel if it were me. :(

[pigman]

joasis, you are doing a great service for Bill. I read your bio on your profile page and I like your philosophy on life.

[Kirk_Allen]

God Bless you joasis.  I have no doubt he will be able to saw just fine. 

I also think its awesome he has a CC permit.  Just the other day on the Outdoor channel they showed an older gentelman who went deer hunting with a rifle and he too was totally blind. His FRIEND helped him hold the cross hairs steady on the target and he pulled the trigger and tagged his game. 

The joy it must bring him to do such things is pricelss.  You are truly a friend to this man and I applaud you more than you can imagine.

[Tom]

Just try to remember that the most valuable thing one man can give to another is his time.  Make his day.

[Kelvin]

I've read articles about totally blind woodworkers having complete shops, and doing very well.  THe article commented on visting one, who the author thought it was strange, worked in the total dark, till he thought about it.  I can't see any reason why a blind person can't be just adept at woodworking.  A lot of the dangers are unseen to us as well.  Ever see a spinning blade?  Learning to avoid putting your hands in certain places, no matter what you think your eyes see, would save a lot of fingers of people who thought they knew where the blade was.  Though, tablesaw work probably for the same reasons everyone else would have, would be better substituted with bandsaws. 
As far as band breakage, i can't see how the operator could be more safe.  Don't think this is an issue.  As far as getting hurt learning new things like the lathe, we would all do that.  I think a blind person wouldn't mind getting hurt figuring things out any more than you our me.  My grandfather was a furniture maker in Grand RApids in the heyday.  heck if you had all your fingers you weren't working hard enough there.  (days before safety was invented)  I mean to say, he lost only the end of one thumb, did not stop him from thinking about what he did.  Thats all he lost.  Accidents teach us things, hopefully they aren't very serious, but for a person to not have a use in the world is the worst accident of all! 
Any possible danger is outweighed by finally living.  What use would it be to live 100 years in a safe cacoon if you hadn't lived at all?
You are doing the right thing, no matter what happens safety wise.  He probably will get hurt, we all do, but this will not prove that he shouldn't be doing something.  He will work through it.  That is why he rides around with you.  He wants a purpose.  If you can help him with that you will give him the very thing even Donald Trump is still looking for, a good pupose to his life.  Keep it up,
KP

[just_sawing]

There are problems (Not for the blind man but there well wishing good friends. Before anyone takes affence I'm talking but me and personal experiance. My wife worked with a clinically blind man (He could see a High contrased shape) and when he lost his home we brought him to the farm and let him live in our old RV. David tagged allong with me and that is where my trouble started. When you live in a rurale couminity your probably a volunteer fire fighter. The call comes you go. I pulled up on a bush fire that was about to get serious but if I got on it hard it was going to be nothing much. I told David man the radio and I jumpped out to fight. I giving it heck when David hollers at me standing to my side with a flap pole. Where is the fire. I looked down at his feet and said the only thing I could. Your standing in it. Everything was fine we got it taken care of. I really made the point that if I tell you to man the radio man the radio. A few months later we are called out on a brush fire. One man lites the fire nad it goes to the neigboros woods. We pull up in the middle to start a fire line. No problem untill both neigboros show up with Guns. We retreat and call for the sherriff. As we are standing there I notice that the fire truck is in the middle between these individuals. Yeap David is there manning the radio just as I told him to. I walk up between these guys and calmly tell david to come with me. No I'm manning the radio!!!
David come with me now I need your help. HE came and when we were out of range we told him the problem. I'm glad the he had a sence of humor.  Masny more stories but you get the gist.
Roy

[thedeeredude]

You are a wonderful friend joasis.  If he wants to saw, there is nothing that is going to stop him.  Human willpower will overcome anything.  Can he use a computer at all?  He should get on the forum here if he can.  I'll leave with a verse here,

If you have done it to the least of my brothers, you have done for me.

[customsawyer]

Good on you joasis. Don't be to hard on your wife sometimes the ladies don't understand us and we never understand them but you let that man saw he will do what he can do and whatever that is it will be great to him. My hat is off to you.

[Warren]

joasis,

Like the others said, you are a true friend.  We shouldn't hold someone back due to what WE perceive as a handicap.  I have worked with two individuals who were blind from infancy.  One was very proficient at debugging computer problems with a "talking" computer.  The other works in a 911 emergency dispatch center with multiple radios, computers, and a dispatch console with dozens of buttons. He often works 3rd shift solo ...   It's just a matter of "want to". 

Tell your friend I wish him the best !

Warren

[LeeB]

any time i start to think there are no decent people left in the world a dose of the forum puts me straight. my hat's off to you my friend. we should all be so generous. LeeB

[KGNC]

Need to add my fun story. There is an older blind gentleman near here that heats with wood. He has several friends and family members that keep him supplied in wood but he loves to run the contol valve on the wood splitter. I ask the guy that works with him a lot loading the splitter if he was concerned about get a hand mashed? He said, no, Doc listens and stops when I start screaming.

[broker farmer]

KGNC,  THAT'S A FUNNY STORY!  It is always interesting that the TRUE stories always seem to be the funniest.