Who's making Money with a sawmill

Oldsawdust · February 28, 2006, 01:49:55 PM

I plan to buy a used swingmill very soon. Getting logs for almost free is not a problem (red oak, popler, walnut, hickery, and pine). Whats the best way to make money or selling what I cut. thanks for your help.

jpgreen · February 28, 2006, 01:53:30 PM

Welcome to the board Oldsawdust.

I too am asking that question... ;D

brdmkr · February 28, 2006, 01:55:48 PM

Not me!

But you have come to the right place. I enjoy cutting and I rarely cut for others, but that may be changing as it seems more people are interested in having their trees converted to lumber. Right now, I am cutting my own lumber for personal use and working on building a shop, kiln, and storage area for the mill and lumber.

Really, I just wanted to welcome you to the forum!

IL Bull · February 28, 2006, 02:29:34 PM

I have a lot of hardwood lumber cut and still looking for a broker. Maybe some of these pros can help us non pros out. :

oakiemac · February 28, 2006, 03:15:39 PM

Oldsawdust,

Your best bet when first starting out might be to sell your lumber to a wholesaler or concentration yard. There are 2-3 within an hours drive from me probably is a few around you too. Keep in mind they buy in large quanites usually over 3000bf of one species some times they want larger amounts. They grade the lumber then cut you a check but what I have found is that they grade real hard on the little guy. I think they much prefer to deal with truck load quanities. I quit selling to these guys because they can kill you on the grading.
On the postitive side is they will buy all your lumber from FAS to 3 common and you get your check within a month or so usually.

Oldsawdust · February 28, 2006, 04:21:06 PM

thanks oakiemac
what type of kiln do you have? And do these wholesellers buy kiln lumber or wet.

Ron Wenrich · February 28, 2006, 05:22:38 PM

I'm running a much bigger mill. I have found that lumber graders will grade the lumber pretty close to what it is, unless they don't really need or want the wood. When you hit those times, then you have to rethink what you're doing. I also know of concentration yards that will only buy circle cut lumber.

I wouldn't count on free logs for a real long time. Eventually, everyone will think you're getting rich and then they'll want to charge you, or someone else will find your stash and pay for it.

The best way to make money on a mill is to have a niche market. When I first started out, I sawed ties and casket stock. Grade was not as important to the casket folks. They always looked at the good side of a board, not the back. After 25 years, we're still cutting them.

I know of one guy that cuts flooring and another cuts turning squares. You have to go and pound on a few doors to see what is needed in your area. A lot of what you can cut will depend on your log quality.

Kelvin · February 28, 2006, 05:53:53 PM

I feel to make money on a small scale you have to be flexible. Saw for other people, kiln dry for yourself and other people. Find markets for all your material. Firewood to retail lumber. Most of the time people, including myself, get impatient. It comes and goes. You need to be in bussiness for 5 years before local people start to hear about you, and word of mouth is important. Do a bad job, and word gets around 10x's as fast. You need to make yourself as effeciant as possible. Sell molding, sell pallet wood, sell ties, sell sel. and bet. retail. Advertise locally for sawing. I have a friend who grosses $35k on custom sawing alone per year.

I also do handyman work, build furniture, anything out of wood. Be flexible, and multifaceted. Change with the work load. Cut out a barn, even put it up. You'll be the one making $20/ hr + instead of someone else. I have a woodmizer LT40, and i'm using it about 10% of the time. One guy near me sells nothing but figured maple cue stick blanks to china. He has a multimillion dollar operation built on that, all by himself.

When you get into logs and sawing you need support equipment. I have a dump truck with a crane, a backhoe, a loader tractor. These all have multiple uses and hire out for $55/hr+ Might as well do whats needed by the people i'd choose to work for. "Can you dig a septic feild for me? They want $4k!"

THis is what works for me, and keeps me interested. If i just stood at the end of the sawmill 8 hrs a day 5 days a week i'd go bonkers.

By the way. Where do you find used swingers? They are pretty new products. Do you save much? Why do you want this type of mill for making a living? I don't see how this mill can saw for grade as well as you have limited log rolling capablility. On my woodmizer log handeling is so easy i'm able to keep flipping the cant for the best face. Time is money, i know it could be done with a swinger, but is it the best? How about the width of boards? I sure wouldn't want to be stuck with 8" for true production numbers. (i know they can do more by flipping but is it easy?)
Good luck.
KP

mike_van · February 28, 2006, 06:02:47 PM

Just another thought, is there anyone near you [10, 20 30 miles] doing the same thing? Competition may be good for the buyer, not so good for the seller. When someone says " Joe Blow does this for 10 cents a ft. will you?" Kelvin - some really good points in your post -

woodmills1 · February 28, 2006, 06:42:46 PM

I think you need to think about weather you are after the whalsale market or you can make it cutting some orders and some on the site then trying to find a retail market for you leftovers. Now I know I said retal but thats retail at the low level, which for me means 50 or 60 per cent of the local big box retail. Try your local high schools to see if they will let you bid on there shop needs, then call every steel company in your area to see if you can make them dunnage out of your low value inventory logs. Then check the yellow pages for any local carpenter advertising any custom work. Find the right combination and you have a business.

Bibbyman · February 28, 2006, 06:51:17 PM

Quote from: mike_van on February 28, 2006, 06:02:47 PM
Just another thought, is there anyone near you [10, 20 30 miles] doing the same thing? Competition may be good for the buyer, not so good for the seller. When someone says " Joe Blow does this for 10 cents a ft. will you?" Kelvin - some really good points in your post -

I'd rather not think about the other guy being competition. We have cooperated with a number of other mills in the area. Some of the first cash off our mill came from helping another mill fill and order for 6x6 cedar timbers. We pooled some 5/4 red oak grade lumber with another mill and we've bought logs from yet another. I've often passed along the name and number of mills closer to the customer or better able to do the job.

I think there is still a tremendous market out there – enough for everyone.

P.S... A swing mill has an advantage of being able to break down large logs. You could go around to big-time production mills and ask them if they hire you to come in and cut up their oversized logs. It's happend before.

woodmills1 · February 28, 2006, 07:09:46 PM

with bibbys and my reply it looks like you need to do the leg work and find the market in your area, and as he said there is definate room for all of us. Maybe also try your local pallet market. I had one that was great but downsized in my area and another that was short money no matter how I looked at it.

mike_van · February 28, 2006, 08:04:06 PM

Bibbyman, that works out fine most times. There used to be a guy 15 miles from me that had a Woodmizer, when I had people that didn't want or couldn't move logs, I gave his number out, many times. But, for a new guy starting out, I feel it's important to know all the pro's & con's before sinking thousands of dollars in a business. This small town i'm in, had there been others doing small sawing orders, I probably wouldn't have.

Captain · February 28, 2006, 10:30:57 PM

You find used swingers at www.swingmills.com

OR at least that is the long term plan...

Captain

Oldsawdust · March 01, 2006, 11:34:57 AM

I do'nt plan to give up my day job. However if I saw one day a week it would be nice to make a few bucks. 8)

oakiemac · March 02, 2006, 03:08:16 PM

Oldsawdust,

I have a Nyle and an Ebac kiln. The wholesalers buy green lumber only.

Oldsawdust · March 02, 2006, 05:50:19 PM

I just picked up another load of black Walnut. 8)

Somebody must have a used 10' Petterson I can buy. HELP

brdmkr · March 02, 2006, 05:52:33 PM

Hey old sawdust. Haul that stuff to SW Georgia, and we can work a deal. My Lucas ought to be fit for the task ;D

UNCLEBUCK · March 03, 2006, 01:12:39 AM

I am going into making pool cues asap ! 8) I knew all that free basswood I been burning might be good for something else :D Just dont use them breaking the rack on the first shot or it might be your last :D

customsawyer · March 03, 2006, 04:24:31 AM

First welcome to the forum. I don't like to think of any of our other mills around as competition I like to think of them as friends as bibby said they can help you and sometimes you help them. I know that for myself there have been many times that the other mills saved my bacon.
You are welcome to come on over to Dublin and I will let you learn how to tail lumber from a WoodMizer. :D :D :D First leason free all you have to do is feed me a steak like Tom did. ;D
All jokes aside you can come on over anytime just send me a PM.

highpockets · March 03, 2006, 06:03:59 AM

I use mine as a money disposal pit.

ARKANSAWYER · March 03, 2006, 07:59:11 AM

Oh well if you want to make money forget the mill. Buy a kiln and moulder and make some real money off of he sweat of them before you. Haul your free logs over somewhere about 50 miles away and have them sawed. Then dry them and sell the lumber. You will find more sawyers then kilns. Hardwoods are just about worthless till they are dried. (for the general public) I can buy FAS red oak here all day for $1.05 bdft, dry and plane it for $0.50 bdft then sell it for $3.00 bdft. Beats the $0.20 I got for sawing of which only $0.06 was money earned. Hey! Maybe I should expand and get into retail. ;)

jpgreen · March 03, 2006, 11:41:33 AM

So Arky-

Do you make your money primarily with your building skills, then use the mill to make building materials?

Or do you do a combination of milling, building, drying and selling?

woodmills1 · March 04, 2006, 07:58:50 AM

I think you will find out that most of us use a combination of tasks to keep paying the bills. I run the gamut from cutting on the mill, making and selling firewood, tree and brush removal, selling planed lumber or moulding or even installing it, to snow plowing and garage or cellar cleanouts.

stumpy · March 04, 2006, 08:41:03 AM

I think it depends what you mean by "Making money". No I'm not a politician, I have a real point here. To me, making money is making profit. I approach my mill as a real business. I do the work and collect the money. At the end of the month, I pay my rent, utilities, fuel, repairs, insurance etc. If there is money left, I pay myself my "monthly salary". If there is money left over after that, then I can say I made money. It may sound basic, but I never confuse revenue with profit.
I intend to make my operation pay me and my bills and make a profit while at the same time provide me with enjoyment. Custom sawing other people's logs alone will not do this. I work at getting my own logs to saw and sell and am always looking to find ways to add value to what I saw.