Gin Pole Story, part two

[Jim_Rogers]

Gin pole Story, part two.


Years ago, I got inspired to create a gin pole to use during raisings to lift heavy timbers up and place them into the timber frame.

In July of 2005 we, my self and my timber framing students, created a 16' tall gin pole and used it at a customer's raising.

You can read about that in the "Gin pole story" thread.

At the time I got inspired, the gin pole was only a part of the older tools that I wanted to create.

The other part was the "windlass."

This is a winch made of wood and it has been used for years before mechanical winches were invented.

I'm sure you've seen, in movies about old sailing ships, the men lifting the anchor by turning something with four or more handles. This is the windlass or another name is capstan.

Recently I read where it's called a capstan when the shaft is vertical and a windlass when the shaft is horizontal.

But during my first research all the pictures listed it as a windlass, and that's what we've been calling it since we started its construction (right or wrong that's just what we've been calling it).

What you do is use a windlass to add mechanical advantage to the pulling of the rope.

The mechanical advantage is figured by the diameter measurement of the circle created by the ends of the handles divided by the diameter of the drum the rope/line is wrapped around. In our case this is 13.5 to 1.

With the help of author/timber framer/architect Jack Sobon, I researched many designs and with Jack's approval of my final design, we constructed a wooden windlass.

It has been completed, and this past week we tested it.

Here is a shot of our "gin pole" being used to lift two 8"x8"x16' plates weighing 500 pounds off of two saw horses:



The line comes down from the top block to another pulley block called the "redirection" block and from there to the windlass.

As shown here:



Then it is wrapped around the drum three times and someone "tails" the line off the drum.



In this shot, by friend Eddy is tailing the line so I could take the photo.

I lifted two timbers weighing 500 pounds by turning the handles of the windlass with one hand.

The math as I have figured it is: 500 lbs plus 40% for rope friction through the blocks is 200 pounds (500 x .40 = 200) equaling 700 (500 + 200 = 700) divided by 4 as the block and tackle gives us a 4 to 1 mechanical advantage ratio; equals 175 pounds. 175 pounds divided by 13.5 (windlass ratio) equals 12.96 pounds of pressure on any one of four handles is needed to lift the load.

We tested the windlass by pushing on a scale against the handle to see how much pressure or drag the drum created without any line/rope hooked to it. It took between 5 and 10 pounds pressure to turn the handles. This friction factor has to be added also.

So, total to lift 500 lbs of timbers is around 23 pounds, and that's on one handle. The windlass has four handles so that divides again to about 5.75 lbs if four people were to do it together.

Amazing how easy thing can become.....

Jim Rogers

[beenthere]

Interesting
I've always thought of a capstan as a drum that was constantly rotating, and the line was wrapped around 2-3 times and pulled snug when 'line-in' pull was needed, and left loose to let line out.
Whereas a windlass was the idea of powering the drum with poles, either by hand or by an animal walking around in circles.  Seems you have the combination of the two. 

Seems if the take-up rope ran under the tractor with loader, then there would be no need to stake down the 'windlass' and there wouldn't be side pull that now must tend to want to slide the front of the tractor toward the winch. Maybe enough weight from the load on the gin pole to keep it from sliding sideways.

Still, good job and bet it is handy.
Once the beam is lifted, how do you direct it to another location? Or is it just up and down in one location?

[Jim_Rogers]

Here is my drawing of the windlass:



We were lucky when we started to create this that my partner in the tool business Tom Perkins found a windlass drum/axle. He had actually found it some years ago, at the landfill, knowing what it was, he saved it. When I told him we were going to create one, he brought it over and we used one end of it. The windlass drum/axle had two metal rings one around each end, and two metal axle parts.

It also had two holes through it for the handles but only one metal pipe through one hole for the handle. I removed the pipe for storing it, and cut off the rotten end to create a drum/axle the length that we needed.

I then refashioned the end to accept the ring. again.

It works great, but still needs some improvement.

We'll be using it to lift the plates for the next raising we do....

Jim Rogers

[Jim_Rogers]

Beenthere:
I think your description of a capstan is fairly accurate, although the line-in, line-out may also be controlled by the direction of the drum rotation.

When we lift a beam for setting it on top of three posts, as shown in Gin Pole Story thread, we aligned the gin pole lift top point over the location of the posts, and let the plate being raised to slide up the side of the frame.
Although when Jack Sobon raised his frame, by himself, with his own personal gin pole, he leaned the gin pole in over the tenons on top of the posts by loosening the back line and the guide lines to the gin pole. If the lines are tied off correctly with proper knots and such this can be done very easily.

Jim Rogers
The windlass does move some when the weight is applied, so it has to be secured to something. We put a chain from the frame to a heavier object outside the frame of the picture.
And when we started turning the handles the windlass did move a little until it found its correct spot to sit....

[Tony_T]

Nice post Jim!

I've got some books by Richard Babcock where he's raising some really HUGE bents (40 ft clear span, 10 X 12" and 14 X18 " cords) using a ginpole.  On a 2nd barn, in conjunction with the gin pole, he uses a capstan like device which he calls "the bull wheel". 

If anyone's interested I can scan the photos of the raisings and the "bull wheel" and post them?

[Max sawdust]

Like that windlass 8)  How long did that take to build?

Here is me having fun operating a 30' tall Derek, with a 15-20' boom raising a large log to a second floor.  The top of the Derek is tied off 30' up in four trees surrounding the construction site. This one has electric motors.  It can be operated with manual boat winches just as easy.  The boom can be raised and lowered on the pole.

max

[Jim_Rogers]

Tony:
Who do you think inspired me, to build the gin pole and the windlass?

(it was Mr. Babcock)........

I met him and bought one of his books......

Jim Rogers

[TW]

Thanks Jim Rogers for posting theese informative posts about handling heavy loads.

I think I have some artikle somewhere concerning capstans and windlasses on shipboard. If I remember right it is said that a capstan axle should be conical with the wide end down. That would prevent the rope from slidind down and jamming.

I used the word capstan as it is sometimes used parallel to the Swedish term "gångspel" for the kind of windlass Jim built.

The oldtimers used capstans like Jim's for pulling fishingboats ashore. They did have cylindrical axles like Jim's.

[Jim_Rogers]

I have a picture from a book in another language some people say it's Dutch but I'm having trouble translating it.
TW: can you look at this and see if you know this language?
Here it is:

Tekening 94:

De kaapstander:

Nasst het lastige, per omgang tweemaal, overstappen had de kaapstander nog het nadeel van het zich om de spil verplaatsen van het daarom geslagen part van de loper. Om de loper naar zijn beginstand te kunnen terugschuiven moest de trek op de loper, als deze zijn uiterste stand had bereikt, worden overgenomen door het aan de kaapstander bevestigde seistouw dat dan met een stoppersteek aan de loper weerd geboden (seizen = binden, het seizen bij de kaapstander werd ook verschieten of vervaren genoemd. Het seistouw moest dunner zijn dan de loper). Bij rondloping met zon en rechtsgangige winding om de spil zal de loper omhoogklimmen. Bij het seizen zal hij gemakkelijk naar de beginstand kunnen vallen.
Zou men linksgangig windern dan zal hij naar beneden bewegen. Daarna zou het meer moeite kosten hem naar de hoge beginstand te brenge.


TW, can you translate this?

If not can anyone else out there translate this?

Thanks

Jim Rogers

PS. oh, by the way the caption was under a picture of five men working a capstan and a gin pole.

[thurlow]

Jim, my Dutch is kinda' rusty :D; this is how AltaVista-Babel Fish translated it................

Drawing 94: The capstan: Nasst it cumbersome, by ambulatory twice, change the capstan had still the disadvantage of the pin moves himself of for this reason the beaten part of the cursor. The cursor to its beginstand is possible terugschuiven had the appetite seistouw confirmed on the cursor, if these extreme score had to have been reached, is taken over by to the capstan that with a stopper press tick to the cursor ordered (seizen then kept out = bind, the seizen at the capstan also shoot or vervaren were called. The seistouw had be thinner than the cursor). At rondloping with sun and rechtsgangige convolution for the pin the cursor omhoogklimmen. At the seizen he easily to the beginstand is able fall. One linksgangig then he will move windern down. Afterwards it would cost to more effort him to the high beginstand at brenge.

[Tom]

The last time I saw writing like that, It was in the KatzenJammer Kids. :D

[TW]

The text is obviously in Dutch. Sadly I do not know Dutch.

The few words I know tell that the text tells about something concerning the use of ropes for something, or some kind of rigging.
It may well explain the capstan picture.

[Don P]

Its beyond my wife's ability. She's coming out with snippets. I think Thurlow's Dutch is the best so far  :D. We're sending it on to her Dutch aunt, they travelled quite a bit on their sailboat so I'm hoping she can make more sense of it.

[SwampDonkey]

I asked somone on irc who knows dutch and he said it looked like it went through a translator and the syntax was all messed up. He said it was jibberish. I got no idea myself.

[Jim_Rogers]

I have personally ran it through several online translation programs but there are too many technical words for them, and they can't translate them.

The caption is typed in word for word, letter for letter right from the book it was printed in. There have been no changes in order or spelling.

Thanks to all who have tried.....

Jim Rogers

[SwampDonkey]

Jim are there any recent Dutch immigrant farmers in your area? If so, maybe it's time for a visit. ;D

[Max sawdust]

I asked somone on irc who knows dutch and he said it looked like it went through a translator and the syntax was all messed up. He said it was jibberish. I got no idea myself.

SD, I think you may be on to something.  It may have not been written in Dutch to begin with.

Max

[Don P]

I've been thinking the same about my inlaws for years, but it just doesn't seem like my place to tell em they're speaking jibberish. They seem to enjoy it and go on so. I just smile and try to nod at what seems to be appropriate times.

[Raphael]

Here's another Dutch to English translation...  Not much better than Babel fish but different.

Design 94: 

The kaapstander: 

Nasst the difficult, per contact twice, change had the kaapstander yet the disadvantage of it self the pivot move of the about that hit part of the loper.  The loper to its beginning position to can terugschuiven must the feature on the loper, if these are extreme position had reaches, be taken over through it at the kaapstander affirmed seistouw that then with a stopper press sign at the loper kept away offered (seizen = bind, the seizen by the kaapstander also wanted to shoot or vervaren named.  The seistouw most tired thinner are then the loper).  By rondloping with sun and rechtsgangige winding round the pivot will the loper omhoogklimmen.  By the seizen, he will can fall easy to the beginning position.  One will will move linksgangig windern then he to below.  After that will bring the lake trouble expenses him to the high beginning position to. 

Could this be Flemish rather than Dutch?  I haven't found an online translator for that.

[Jim_Rogers]

I'm not sure what language it is......

Thanks for trying anyway.....

Jim Rogers

[SwampDonkey]

Jim, does the book have any clues, like the address/city of the publisher? If it's Dutch or German you should see alot of words very similar to English.

[Jim_Rogers]

I got that picture from Jack Sobon, about a year ago, when I was out to his house/office.
It's his book, I don't have the info about the author and such at this time. But I will be gathering all that info for my article I'll be writing about creating the windlass for the Timber Framers Guild magazine. The editor usually requires such info as reference.

Jim Rogers

[TW]

Do'nt we have any dutchmen on this forum?
I think there is one who lives somewhere in southeast Asia.

[Raphael]

Do'nt we have any dutchmen on this forum?
I think there is one who lives somewhere in southeast Asia.

I know who you mean, Giel a new member currently residing in Vietnam.  I just sent him an invite to this thread.

The member map lists only one person in the "Belgium,Luxemburg,Netherlands" area: Bernhard_II
Perhaps we should give him an invite as well.

[Giel]

Hey guys, I just received the message of Raphael. Nice thread you got going here, interesting to see old techniques being used again.

I had a shot at translation. The text is indeed Dutch, but of a difficult type, it's full of technical terms that specifically relate to capstans. Several of the words are archaic and not in common use anymore. So rather than attempting a literal translation, let me try and summarise the text:

The text starts of by describing two disadvantages of the capstan: i) having to go over the frame twice during each turn; and ii) the tendency of the load-bearing rope to slip around the central axis. It then goes on to elaborate how to return the load-bearing rope to its original position. Apparently, a line of a smaller diameter than the load-bearing rope is tied of to the frame (really couldn't make much of that section). Finally it explores the difference between right- and left running windings of the load-bearing rope. A right winding of the load-bearing rope on the capstan has the tendency to climb up the axis when tightened and vice versa for a left winding. This makes right winded ropes easier to return to their original position.

Well, I hope it makes more sense to you than it does to me. Translation is a bit awkward if one doesn't know the subject and associated technical terminology.

Cheers, Giel