What kind of mill do I need?

TexasTimbers · November 19, 2006, 10:55:32 AM

Well things change you know. One day you are cruising along and then whammo you find a niche market you can have a little prosperity with if you can find all the tools and everything else you need to fill it with economy of processing.

I need to know if it's a scragg mill, or whatever it might be, that I need to process short lengths of logs in the 6" - 12" diameter range effeciently. I'd like to be able to go up to 20" but those only constitute maybe 15% of the logs that are coming into my yard. I can make a cradle for my bandmill to throw those on.

When I say short lengths I am talking 4 feet and up. 3 feet would be nice but I can live with 4. Any ideas welcomed.

Raphael · November 19, 2006, 12:29:05 PM

How much were you looking to spend in both time and money?
My gut reaction is a Logosol Wood Worker's Mill (designed for 4-8' logs) and their 3 phase bandsaw or a homebuilt varation as you may be looking for something a bit more automated. Logosol's design brings the log up to the blade rather than lowering the blade each pass, I must say that pulling boards from above waist height is really nice.
The electric bandsaw is a fairly recent addition to the Logosol line so I don't much about it, it's rated at ~7.5hp (5KW) and is a bit narrow for complete recovery in a 20" log, 17.5" looks to be about the maximum it will square up, above that you'ld need to make at least one cut with a chainsaw.
Squaring up a cant with the chainsaw first isn't a bad idea if there's much dirt on the logs or a chance of hidden steel.

Ron Wenrich · November 19, 2006, 01:00:29 PM

What kind of volume in short logs are you looking at? Scraggs put out quite a bit of lumber in a days time. Some of those volumes are in the 20-30 Mbf/day bracket. That's a lot of logs. Then you'll also have to resaw some of those slabs.

Are you getting the logs in at 4' or are you cutting logs back to 4'? There are a couple of ways of handling the situation.

If you're cutting your logs back, maybe you want to cut your logs while they're long and cut the boards back.

If you want to cut the logs at 3-4', can you put a series of them on your bandmill and cut more than one at a time. You might have to build a jig, but, that might be more cost efficient.

TexasTimbers · November 19, 2006, 02:59:55 PM

I didn''t think of making a jig to cut more than one short log at a time. These logs are Osage Orange logs, so as a rule you don't find straight lengths over a few feet. I'm not cutting them back other than to get the straight lengths. I have a guy harvesting them for me faster than I can cut them. I am at the point of being ready to get another mill but I don't want to make anymore thoughless purchases. I have worn that road out, so I intend to do plenty of research this time.

Volume I am looking at will not be anything near 20 - 30K a day. I hope to one day need that but let's face it that is alot of wood!

customsawyer · November 19, 2006, 03:19:36 PM

I don't know what kind of mill you have but on smaller diameter logs I have clamped two side by side befor and that will speed the process up or you can put a 2x4 between your clamp and the short logs and that will let you clamp two of the short logs end to end if you have enough side supports.

BigTrev · November 20, 2006, 03:08:32 PM

What sort of lumber are you looking at getting out of the logs?

Are you looking for 1", 2" boards or are you looking to just square out what you have for turning etc?

Of course what Ron said is the bottom line. What kind of production are you actually looking to get?

There are a number of "mini-mills" on the market now that may suit your needs quite well. Jake and I were using one on a few days ago in Christchurch on logs not much bigger than what your describing and we got a fair stack of nice boards out.

isawlogs · November 20, 2006, 04:27:40 PM

I had a run of those little short logs , I put four at a time , to do this I put a two by four against the uprights , and then the logs , two side by side , on the front bunks , two in the back on the back bunks , another two by four and clamp them with that .
Worked for me , but did not have thirty thousand feet of those to saw . had only 3 or 4 thousand .

TexasTimbers · November 20, 2006, 07:32:45 PM

Quote from: BigTrev on November 20, 2006, 03:08:32 PM
What sort of lumber are you looking at getting out of the logs?

Are you looking for 1", 2" boards or are you looking to just square out what you have for turning etc?

Mostly 5/4 random l/w. Some thicker stuff. Clamping multiple logs, at first, sounds like a good idea, but since I can't really visualize the whole process...it also sounds like real slow going, which is what I am trying to eliminate now. But I will play around with it and see how it works for me.

Ron Wenrich · November 22, 2006, 05:58:00 AM

The principle behind the scragg mill is to have two stationary blades, and run the log through the blades. Some mills will allow you to move those blades.

What makes the mill so fast is that the logs are move through on either a sharp chain or an end clamping operation. Some end clamping will allow for the log to return and to turn. Its an expensive type of operation, but highly productive.

Most scragg operations end up with a 2 sided cant, and that is run through a gang saw. I don't think that's what you're after.

TexasTimbers · November 22, 2006, 06:04:24 AM

No probably not. I did a google on it after we got to discussing it here and I can't justify that kind of onvestment yet.

I think at my peak I will only be running a couple of hundred shorts (3' - 6') a day when cutting, it's just that I want do them in a day, or two, and not all week like it takes me now. Not that I have cut 200 in a run yet. I did a test run and cut 29 shorts in about 6 hours. Wholly unacceptable. I am looking at stepping up this coming year to at least an LT40 for other reasons but this will increase the manual mill production 7 fold of course. I am seriously thinking about the LT70 and also looking at that awesome Cook's package too.

Cedarman · November 22, 2006, 07:30:17 AM

Back when I had a manual WM LT30 with the twist and chain lock in device, we could cut 4 sides on 20 8' logs per hour. So with a helper, I think it possible to cut 15 or so per hour and saw into lumber. The critical thing is to have a good backstop that will hold the log. A close log supply. Maybe a log deck and use a 4' steel rod with a hook to pull the log to you. Maybe a live log deck to keep logs within reach of the rod too. If you use a scragg, you will need a resaw to take the cant into lumber.

If you figure a good way to saw small logs fast on a small mill, patent it. There are a lot of us that stay up late to think of ways to hold these logs and saw them.

I finally went to a scragg and we can square a log in 30 seconds to a minute. But we are left with a cant to market as a post or run through our resaw for lumber.

DanG · November 22, 2006, 11:35:56 PM

Kevjay, a Mobile Dimension or MightyMite with the twin edgers would break down those short logs mucho pronto. You would want to add an automated deck to make it really pay, though.

customsawyer · November 23, 2006, 04:42:15 AM

I don't know how much help you have or want but you will need at least one good man with the LT40 and probable 2 good men with the LT70 to take advantage of there production. With average sized logs up to 16' long on the LT40 I used to figure on 6 to 8 logs an hour in pine. I have never cut osage orange so I don't know how it compares, this is with one man helping and the use of couple of 3' roller tables to take advantage of the drag back bar.

bull · November 23, 2006, 08:00:00 AM

Morgan,mini scrag made for short logs, also portable..... check out Morgan..

Ron Wenrich · November 24, 2006, 07:09:20 AM

How feasible would it be to use a dogging system like the gripper dog to dog your short logs? Gripper dogs are found on the front door, right hand column.

What I'm thinking is you could get a set of these dogs and put them on a 2x4 or something similar. Lay the 2x4 across the bed of your mill. Put the log on top and dog down. I guess you could clamp your 2x4 for stability.

You could set these up in series, so if the logs weren't quite the same size, it wouldn't really matter. You could load multiple logs on your bed with relative ease.

As for sawing, if you could live saw, then you wouldn't have to turn logs. That would save time sawing, but increase your time edging.

TexasTimbers · November 24, 2006, 07:48:13 AM

These are all exciting ideas. Dang I have mentioned before I'd like to have a MD. Heck I have mentioned before I'd like to have one of just about everything. I didn'tknow a MD could be effecient with small/short though.

CS I am willing to add more men as justified. i have 1.5 right now (one full one part).

bulll I will check out the Morgan never heard of them.

Ron, your idea sounds the most feasable and expedient for my particular sitch right now. I will check out those dogs and, I keep forgetting I have an edger already! just never have set it up. Sawing them live sounds extremely appealing because rotating them is what is killing my effeciency but one man rolling flitches down a conveyor from the bandsaw to another man on the edger is a great idea sounds like to me.

Thanks for all the ideas.