Wood Flooring Is Evil

[TexasTimbers]

I don't often post links to articles but this one ruffled my feathers. Why does the press give voice to what Greenpeace says with no rebuttal? What they are saying does not hold water with much of what I have read elsewhere by people like jim king who are right there in the thick of the Amazon.

The Amazon is not being wiped out because of flooring it is being wiped out becuase of politics, so the peasants can't stop the charcoal burning to feed their families and replace it with sustainable forestry management.

New Guniea is no different I bet. If they would implememnt sustainable forest managament they could meet the demand of the British flooring market and kjeep the forests too. It's all a crok of carp to see Greenpice be able to dissemintae their monkey business. They know the answer is sustainable forestry but that does not give them political power if they promote that.

I'm probably all wet behind the ears on this. Someone straighten me out.


I forgot to mention, our cell phones are wiping out honey bees en masse, but this ojne looks to be accurate possibly.


Edit: i should probably post the link. :   Greenpeace Propoganda

[Ron Wenrich]

I've had 3 experiences with third world forestry.  The first one was in a chat room with a student from Mexico.  She typed about how there was no management there.  When the local thugs wanted money, they simply went out and logged the nearest area with trees.  The government wouldn't challenge them.

The second one was where someone wanted to know about ceramic spikes for spiking trees.  It turned out that they were working for a SE Asian government and were in charge of a park.  The problem was thieves.  They would come in and cut the trees and export them.  There were armed guards, but they were easily bribed.  The feeling was that if they spiked the trees, they would be unsaleable, and could the forest could be preserved.

My third encounter was by telephone.  Somebody called me up and wanted to know if I could cruise 500,000 acres of timber in Africa.  He wanted to do a fly over.  I told him I couldn't even identify the trees, let alone determine volume and value.  Then he wanted to know if it could be logged in 3 months.  I finally learned that it was investment money that was behind it.  It seems that it was common for large amounts of money to be used to buy land, then cut everything in sight.  He told me there were several adjoining tracts that were already cut.

Greenpeace does have a point that the consumer drives the cart.  But, in some cases, they buy only what's presented to them.  If they didn't have rainforest wood, they could be using wood from a better managed forest.  There is a price to pay for management.  My three examples had no management, just profit as a motive for selling trees.  The consumer just supplied the liquidity.

[jim king]

I love these tree hugger sales pinches but they are in reality very harmful for the tropical forests due to the false information presented.  Lets start with the Greenpeace sales pitch first.
Just as demand for mahogany is disfiguring the Amazon

This is a good start , As mahogany only grows one tree every hundred hectares or so and mostly where people have never been or worked compare this is like one  red oak missing out of your 240 acre wood lot.
That problem is a lie.

destroying the rainforest through the construction of new roads and the felling of trees to allow its removal.
The new forestry laws designed by the WWF and paid for by the US government in these countries do indeed promote road building to the degree that they would create the biggest deforestation project in the history of the world if implemented.  That problem is not solved but being worked on.
Greenpeace's findings. Merbau grows to more than 100ft and is prized by developers because its wood is flecked with yellow, giving it a golden hue. 
From my 20 plus years experience in the Amazon  I really don't believe that Greenpeace or any of the others have any idea what species exist or in what quantity in any tropical forest.  If someone really wants a simple looking wood like Merbeau there are dozens of look alike species.  Problem-non existent.
60 per cent of its historic range, warns Greenpeace in the .
I love these kind of figures, where do they come from ?  Do you really think there is data available in these third world countries to support such a statement.  If you do send some money to Greenpeace.  Problem-public ignorance of the facts.

certified by the Forest Stewardship Council, World Conservation Union's.  Wonderful upstanding people and would not lie to anyone to raise money.  Problem-they lie and suck money from people for their own self promotion.
ban the import of illegally imported wood. 
This is typical of the statements by these wonderful and well meaning people.  How do you ban the import illegal wood into England ? I think one end of the sentence fights with the other.  I really don't think England allows illegal wood to be imported. Problem- Simple lies to promote their fundraising.

Now for a couple of facts about the Amazon.  The Amazon is the size of the continental US and annually produces 2.4 times the annual production of Oregon which is about half desert east of the mountains.  This does not agree with the statements that logging is destroying the Amazon.
Any tropical forest in the world is not destroyed by logging.  The destruction is done by cutting firewood and also producing charcoal or attempts at farming because the people are not allowed to work legally selectively harvesting a few trees from their own land due to laws forded down the throat of these countries by the US Government and the WWF and others.  Why would a logger spend the time and money to cut down a forest when he only has a market for half a dozen species and barely survives doing that.
The problem we have in the world today is that people have expendable income and have a good heart and are suckers for these stories.  I would like to start a new non profit , non tax paying company and pay myself well as the other groups do to stop the "probable" destruction of Pi$$ Elm and Pussy willow.
As a side note, we are advancing well to change the forestry law in Peru to allow people to work and sustainably harvest and stop clear cutting to make charcoal.  This of course is against the wishes of the WWF and the others.  They know nothing about the jungle and think it is like a "paradise" like park. 
I could go on for hours but I think I made my point.
This is a good cite showing that the WWF and the US government created the absurd forestry law that we have which is not similar to what they talk about on the site and forced it down the Peruvian governments throat.  These people have no shame.
You will love the part where the WWF is proud to say they are sucking millions out of the Peruvian Treasury that belong to the US taxpayers.

TFCA Debt-for-Nature Swap
Has provided leadership and support for the TFCA Debt-for-Nature Swap between the Peruvian and US Governments. In this scenario, the US Government will relieve US$10.6 million of Peruvian debt over the next 12 years, in exchange for the Peruvian Government's direct payment of these funds to Conservation International, The Nature Conservancy, and WWF. Funds will be used to implement effective long-term management in priority protected areas.

I wonder if the US taxpayers are going to get a little Panda pin ?¿
Link

[TexasTimbers]

Jim I'm glad you validated my thinking. I would hate to know my ire had been misplaced. That last quote is really worth a tax revolt.

See I don't really know nothin about nothin regarding forestry problems and the Amazon and the worlds rain forests, but even dummy me knew what a crok of carp THAT article was! :

[Ron Wenrich]

Jim

You wrote:  "Why would a logger spend the time and money to cut down a forest when he only has a market for half a dozen species and barely survives doing that."

You make it sound like there isn't that much merchantable timber growing in the jungle.  I've seen loggers do the same thing with lower merchantable timber in the temperate forests.  They high grade the stands, leaving a lowered amount of good seed source and a degraded forest.

How would selecting the better trees improve the jungle forest?  I know its a different type of ecosystem and would probably respond in a different way. 

[jim king]

Ron:  The jungle is VERY diverse and has hundreds or thousands of species.  The reason that the loggers only work with a few species is that the markets are very hard to break into with a new woods.  Here in Peru less than 5 species are 98% of exports but that will be changing.  I work with almost exclusivly unknown species opening new markets.  We are just starting to produce plywood faced with the same high figure woods we produce for the hobby market so we can start marketing everything necessary for kitchens.

If you calculate that we loose at least 3,000 bf per acre to windfals or old age anually and multiply that times the amount of acres in the continental US you can see the massive natural resource loss in the Amazon .  I have no idea where the zeros would stop on that calculation. 

You are right in thinking that we should harvest more species but as there is yet to be a real logging industry in the Amazon there is a lot of education to be done bothe here and abroad.  The old growth forest is said by many "experts" to give off more greenhouse gases that it obsorbs.  I do not claim to understand what any of these guys are talking about but I do know what is reality here.

It is easier to raise money showing a photo of a skidder in the jungle pulling out a tree than showing an "indigeonus" family in the slash and burn process which is the real problem.  My big complaint is where does all the money go that these groups raise ?  It is not being spent here.

Here is another article from down river in Brazil you may enjoy.  We have the same problem in Peru.  My wife has an NGO to help animals which we privatly fund and I am ashamed to admit we have one for fear people will associate us with others like the WWF etc..

Brazil Worried International NGO's Want to Take Over the Amazon    

Written by Newsroom   
Thursday, 18 May 2006
The 10th National Conference of State Legislatures, which began in Brazil Wednesday, May 17, and runs through Friday, May 19, will debate denunciations that the Amazon is being internationalized.
State deputies from various regions in Brazil and experts on the Amazon are gathered in Manaus, in the state of Amazonas, for the event, which is sponsored by the National Union of State Legislatures (UNALE).
At the end of the encounter, the participants intend to draft the Letter from Manaus, which will be delivered to the candidates in this year's presidential race.
During the conference the military commander of the Amazon region, general Cláudio Barbosa Figueiredo, will give a talk entitled "Amazônia - Patrimony of Brazil," in which he will warn of the foreign intervention risks the country faces.
According to UNALE president, José Távora, the choice of Manaus to host the conference was a strategic one for raising the issue of the risk of the region's internationalization.
"Among the wealth of topics of vital interest to state legislatures, we want to discuss the national security of one of the states with the greatest resource endowments in the country and question the purpose of the presence of 3,600 non-governmental organizations (NGOs) in the region," he affirmed.
ABr

What would people say if you had 3600 foreign non tax paying foreign companies operating in one city in the states . 

[crtreedude]

Jim is right on the mark from my experience. Mahogany is a problem because so far, it is very difficult to grow in plantations (I try every year experiments with some success)

In an acre of rainforest, you will have at least 200 types of trees. it is unreal. Most of which you have never heard.

An oddity here is that there is a tree Caobilla which is very similar to Caoba (Mahogany). The main difference? It is a little harder than Caoba. Looks the same - price is about a tenth of Caoba. Why? No one knows of it. However, if you buy a mahogany table or door, it is a very good chance you are getting caobilla.  :

In Costa Rica it is estimated with have about 2,000 species of trees, about 150 are used for wood. This does not count those used to make concrete forms, which is a big market.

Wood flooring isn't evil, it is wonderful because it allows you to use marginal trees.

[OneWithWood]

If you have allergies wood flooring is a god send.

[fuzzybear]

   I am really glad we have people like Jim and Crtreedude on this forum. Reading your posts and seeing the amazing photographs is a real education. 
   As a father of newborn twins I want this planet to be alive when it comes time for them to take over where we left off.  My wife and I have decided that when they are old enough to fully understand we want to take them to Peru and Brazil for a year, so that they can live and learn the real way things are.
   I am ashamed to admit that I was once one of the brainwashed minions that believed the lies spread groups like greenpeace and WWF.  When I moved up north I found out for myself just how much lies they fabricated. I am so glad there are others out there like myself that try so very hard to set the record straight. It is an uphill battle to try and educate people.
   To every one out there I say this.....NEVER give up..... every person you teach the truth to in turn will teach someone else and so on and so on.  Some people will never believe the truth even if it bit them on the @#$%.  Forget about these people and teach the others.

   JIM,
   Have you ever though about doing an on line class with schools from around the world.  I have a friend that is a teacher and she does alot with that kind of forum. I believe she would love to have someone like you, who is obviously very educated in the realility of the Amazon, come online and teach the children about the rainforest and way of life.  I have always believed that if you really want change, forget about the adults and educate the children. They are the future and they will be the ones who inherit the mess there forefathers have left behind.

   NEVER GIVE UP THE FIGHT FOR TRUTH.