Why our businesses are moving overseas

[Qweaver]

My cousin Cindy has a catering business and she had to have 400+ steaks cooked for a large foresty related business this week and she called on me and Sarah to do the cooking.  It was a lot of work... but fun and we got to have a close look at how the factory operated and the attitude of the people that worked at this plant.  We met a lot of great folks but I was just amazed at how many "deadwood" employees we were able to identify just from the small area of the plant that we had acess to.  We were cooking adjacent to the break/ smoking area and were hearing the conversations of the people throughout the 16 hours per day that we were cooking and it just makes me sad to know how little these people appreciate their jobs.  Great jobs with really good pay and benefits and a bunch of spoiled people that just don't care. 
We left a pair of channel locks on the grill over night and they were gone next morning...the supervisor that was overseeing our setup said "you can't leave anything laying out over night here without it being taken"! What a sad comentary on our workforce!
There was one supervisor that spent over half of her 8 hour shift smoking and talking in this area during both of the days that we were there.  Her conversations were often critical of the company and clearly unfounded when compared to a another version from a friend that we know there.

I'm retired now but I've worked in many different plants as a contract welder and have found that the same poor work habits are more the rule than the exception.  The only truly "balls to the walls", "let's get the work done" place that I've ever worked at was building pressure vessels at Circleville Metalworks in Circleville, Ohio in the late 70s.  They were non union and family run.  They became union shortly after I left and closed down a few years later...just couldn't compete when all the stupid rules were applied.  So who won there? 
If it sounds like I'm *pithed...well I am.  I'm sick of Americans thinking that we are owed a better living than the rest of the world.  If we want to have an advantage, we'd better start earning it. 
Those people, over the past two days, made me ashamed for them...and for us as a society.
When all of our jobs are gone overseas...we'll have no one to blame but ourselves.  I'm sure that there was a time when we were among the most hard working, industrious people in the world, and we are now benefitting from that in our county's wealth and standard of living.  But at our present rate of individual productive level we will not continue that.
Dang!
Quinton

[LeeB]

yes sir, that be right.

[Left Coast Chris]

Well.......... its tough to see the unballenced security of the work force take over.  Thank goodness for capitalism.  It will prevail.  A new company will find a better way.

[rbhunter]

There are many reasons that jobs are going overseas.

I have to agree that the attitude and moral of many in the work force is poor. There are a lot of people who do not have a good work ethic. There are also those who will do what ever they can to slow down those who want to work hard. I see it every day.

There are also a lot of poor management decisions. Management fails to think outside the box and find better ways to do things more efficiently. Management fails to motivate thier employees. In most factories there is no incentive for the worker to work hard except for thier own pride. Communism has proven to fail as a type of government because thier is no incentive for the people to work hard. We try and use the same principles as communism in the work force where every one gets the same pay and benefits in a factory and wonder why alot of people will not work hard. If we are going to use the one pay guidelines than maybe we need to have bonuses for the team for increased production or other things. This would possibly help to create a team work and peer presure to get more work out.

There is also the issue of taxes. If we make a product here in the United States lets say for fishing there will be the normal taxes and also taxes to support fishing. But say we make the product in Mexico we eliminate alot of the taxes including the taxes to help support fishing.

There are also enviromental laws that must be followed to manufacture a product in the United States. I am all for these laws but they add to the cost of manufacturing a product in the United States. The down side is the same product can be produced in some countires with out regard to the impact on the environment.

Management also tends to look down on the ones working in the factories. One of the advantages Japan had in producing products is they listened to the ones working on the lines and would see if thier suggestions would work because they realized the workers knew the job best. I have seen management make rules to help but in fact hurt production and quality. The one rule that comes to mind has some people testing a product and loading it into a paint system. When it is unloaded 20% is tested again and if two are found with a problem within a shift than the entire rest of the run has to be 100% tested with out any additional workers to help with the testing. The workers way around this is to put the other one back to be tested by the next shift or to drop it and damage it so it has to be scrapped. The good side is at least they do not ship it defective.

Management does not always have all of the facts to make a good decision. They do not know what it costs to run some large equipment. I see some equipment run at less than full efficiency that uses more fuel in an hour than it would cost to heat a home here in Missouri for an entire winter.

Another problem is the wages. Yes there are some who get paid more than they probably need to be paid but have you done the job. There are hazzards and conditions in most manufacturing jobs than you may not enjoy and it may cost that much to keep employees in the job. I have also learned some things. I have worked in the corporate world and also in factories. I was suprised by how much skill some of these jobs take and how hard it is to get good at some things that look so easy. I do not think the people in manufacturing jobs are given the credit they deserve for the jobs they do. A lot of the jobs I had in the corporate world were easier to pick up and do than the ones I have learned in a factory.

The American worker in a lot of cases on jobs moved out of the country are competing with a work force willing to be paid less than minimum wage. The manufacturing jobs have been the first to go but now the white collar jobs are also starting to go overseas. With the use of the internet it is cheaper to send overseas the white collar jobs than the manufacturing jobs and the workers in other countires are being trained to take these jobs also for alot less than what we pay here in America. Two of the biggest so far are the help desk centers, and also programming. How long before marketing, merchandising, finance, and other fields are moved overseas to save money?

One last thought. For a country to grow and remain strong it must sell more than it buys. In America we are going further in the hole everyday but spending more than we sell. How long can you as an individual spend more than you make before it bankrupts you. It is the same way with a country.

I agree that there are alot of American workers who have a bad work ethic but there are also other problems going along with these that help to push jobs out of the country.

[Ron Wenrich]

Good post!

Mismanagement is something often overlooked in the outsourcing discussion.  There are people in management positions that aren't there for what they know.   ;) 

I've always believed in an incentive program.  If you do more work, you get more pay.  It makes for a productive and happy workforce.  More work for less pay makes a very demoralized work force. 

Things are going overseas not only because of low wages.  There is a lot of new capital and new equipment.  Many of our factories are getting to be outdated.  Quality slips some, so does production.  So, its easier to build a new factory outside of the country than inside. 

Some of the foreign quality leaves a little to be desired.  China may be able to make widgets cheaper, but their food products are shown to be pretty bad.  We've had the problem with food stuff from China, but they also put brake fluid in their toothpaste.      It killed 50 people in Panama last year.  They said not to worry, since you spit out the toothpaste when you're done.   :D  How reassuring.  Those kinds of problems will kill them in the marketplace.

[mike_van]

One thing I saw in my years was the goof-off, complainer, slacker types never had it "bad" Most came right out of school into a good job, they never had a bad one to compare it to. Like being on the business end of a manure fork a few days a week, or a shovel for a few dollars an hour.  

[RSteiner]

Speaking of contaminated tooth paste, there was a segment on the news this morning of more bad tooth paste from China found entering the United States. 

Given the known disregard for the human condition and the environment in China how is it that our business and government want to do business with them?  There was an article in a manufacturing magazine a year ago which stated that China was using the profits from forgien trade to build a bigger war machine.  How long will it be before they start dominating the world? 

China is not our friend.

Randy

[DanG]

I agree with rbhunter that poor management is the root of most of the problems with worker morale.  When Management makes poor decisions, the lack of incentives to perform well is compounded by a lack of inspiration.  One of the most common mistakes Mgmt makes is in personell selection.  First level managers are usually promoted from the work force, and they frequently promote the wrong person.  The last supervisor I had in my career was one of these.  Our entire crew had spent years taking up his slack while he goofed off all day, then milked the overtime cow when his work wasn't done on time.  Morale in that work group went from bad to worse, right away.

At the same time these poor decisions are being made locally, the upper management staff is making one bonehead play after another, and being rewarded handsomely for it.  They whine and complain about the cost of providing materiels and benefits for the workers, then boast of record profits in the Annual Report, and reward themselves again. 

The mid-level managers attend all these "Management Technique" courses taught by some college boy who has absolutely no workplace experience.  He has merely worked out, on paper, a "better" way of herding sheep, and has no clue how to inspire people.  The managers fall for all this claptrap and tighten the noose around the worker's neck some more.  Then they report to Upper Management that they have squeezed another 15 cents worth out of the workers, conveniently omitting the fact that it has cost them a dollar to do it.  Upper Management pats them on the back and rewards themselves again.

Meanwhile, back at the bottom, the worker is watching all this stuff going on above him, and getting more and more depressed.  "Why should I work any harder than I have to?  I'm not allowed to take any pride in what I do.  I don't get any credit when things go well, but I sure get chewed out when they don't!"

The American worker doesn't need incentives, he needs inspiration.  He needs to feel that he is creating something or providing a valuable service.  He needs to feel appreciated.  If he doesn't, morale will go down, and production will follow.  The plant will close, or downsize and the work will be outsourced, and Upper Management will reward themselves again.

[tcsmpsi]

One of the, if not the biggest problem we have, is the increasing development of larger corporations, and the inherent 'mergers' which follow.  Stockholders.  Stockholders all demand their stocks pay.  Other than that, they are completely disassociated from the business itself, and/or any 'responsibility' of technique or consequence.

I have had more than one occassion to intervene in the shennigans of a major energy corporation that my wife works for.

Unfortunately, their 'corporate decisions' are made from input from mid-management whose goals and motives are completely self-serving and lackadaisical, at best.
Their most applied initiatives, are all too often, in scape-goating lower management to cover their own trail of incompetence.

[thurlow]

The American worker doesn't need incentives, he needs inspiration. He needs to feel that he is creating something or providing a valuable service. He needs to feel appreciated.

Various surveys have shown that amount paid ranks several slots down from the top (3rd or lower) in workers satisfaction with their job.

[Ironwood]

I have to say I agree w/ Qweaver. For a lot of our workforce it is a feeling of entitlement. The attitude seems to be permiating our country. It will be interesting to see where it leads this great country over my lifetime (I am 40). Everyone wants paid no one wants to work. I am a one man, bust A$% deal. I get ahead by constantly working and doing more than most. Too bad for our country.


              Reid

[DanG]

Yes, there is an entitlement mentality, but that is fostered by a lack of empowerment.  Every decision made by management sends a message of some sort to the workers.  The message they are getting is, "You don't mean a DanG thing to us.  We don't want you to think, and we don't care what kind of problems your family is having.  You are stupid!  That's what the college boy in the Management Technique class told us.  Oh, by the way, we decided to cut out the Life Insurance for retirees.  We can't afford it anymore because the CEO needs another nine million dollars a year."

[rbhunter]

Management tells everyone how important they are to the company. Yet when bonuses came out according to how the business performed there was a big difference on the percent of bonus each made. There was a formula in which the salary was taken into account along with a percent and some other numbers. The hourly employees multiplier was like 3 and salary below management was 6 I can't remember supervisor numbers or middle management but uppper management was something like 76. The salary alone in the equation should have made up for the differences in management but it was not enough for them. This is the same management that made three acquisitions that failed and they spun it as a success because of what they learned. We lost money on all three.

A question was brought up during a finance meeting of what the factory workers got paid in China. The answer was the going rate.

This is the same management when the company was spun off of a larger company discontinued the retirement plan for everyone but top management. Who do you think would need the retirement plan more the workers or management.

Another place has had a shift differential of .25 an hour for probably twenty years. When it was started the shift differential was a decent percentage difference compared to the hourly wage. Now wages have gone up and the shift differential is basically the same as no difference. Management was asked about the possibility of increasing it to make some difference for having to work odd shifts. The workers were told there was no need to because there were workers willing to work the shift.

As more jobs move out of the country there will be more workers forced into working for what ever management wants to give. There will be a wider difference between management and the workers and this also includes white collar workers as these jobs are going overseas some now also. What kind of future do we want for our children?

The company I work for has started to use a new system a couple of months ago along with purchasing parts only from select suppliers.  We have orders to fill and no parts. We cannot go back to our old suppliers and must wait on parts from China that are a month behind. Our buyers are being held up on producing what they make because we cannot get the parts. How long before they go somewhere else?

Last summer before shutdown I was asked to come in and help unload a system before shutdown. I was told I would get six hours pay of overtime. We worked our butts off for two hours and finished it and was told we could leave or push a broom over a floor that had already been swept for the remainder of the time. Also no break until after four hours. I finally got bored and went home. I had sent my wife on to where we were going and drove my truck thinking the money I would make in overtime would more than make up for driving two vehicles back to our parents. I was wrong.

The plant where I work also only gives one paid 15 minute break in an eight hour shift. We have been working overtime the past several weeks. We used to work two hours over and get an extra ten minute break. But they figured out that they could work us just one hour over and not give an extra break. So we work for four hours straight with no break now. When the temperature gets over 100 outside they will give an extra ten minute break. It is a lot hotter in the plant than outside due to all of the ovens inside and torches and all.

Last summer there was some product made that had a bad part. There were four people assigned to cut them a part and replace the part after they had been painted. The burning paint in the plant made it hard to breathe and one of the ones doing the work complained of getting sick. They told him to keep working. They finally got some masks out for the ones working. They also did not have good ventilatiion pulling the fumes out and you could see smoke hanging through out the plant. The work was done on third shift and some of the first shift workers complained when they came in and was allowed to go home. The paint container had a skull and cross bones on it. When one of the workers started to read it they were told to get back to work.

Dont even get me started on company doctors. There are several horrer stories to tell on the one here in this town. The latest one is she told a man who had been to the energency room and diagnosed with a hernia that he did not have one. He had surgery a couple of weeks later to correct the problem. There are several others as well along with it is just because you are old or you smoke. I was told that I had a full release for work after an accident but could not bow hunt. I asked her what muscles I used at work and she got mad and walked off without answering my question. I do various jobs through out the process and use the same muscles I use for bow hunting.

[scgargoyle]

I see a couple of issues. One is that we are becoming a two-class society, rich and poor. I am a toolmaker, and I make LESS than I did 11 years ago, in the same city, doing the same job. In the meantime, housing, taxes, insurance fuel, etc. have tripled! It's not hard to see where I'm headed. Also, American factories cannot come close to competing w/ the likes of China. A top toolmaker in the US makes $20 an hour or more; in China, they make $.50 an hour. Plus, the Chinese government subsidizes the shops w/ new, state-of-the-art machinery, while many US companies struggle along w/ equipment that is 10 or 20 years out-dated. I honestly believe the Chinese intend to cripple manufacturing in the US, and once we are completely dependent on them, they can do what they want. I'd like to know how we are going to defend ourselves (like in WWII) when there are no factories to convert over to war production....

[Cedarman]

There are some very good companies in this country.  Many of us have been using orange machines to saw wood, some use grey from the same company.  I have never heard any employee say a bad word about the company.  Many get the job and never quit.  They all seem to love their work.  And they do the job the best they can as far as I can see.  Woodmizer has it right.

In the past, I was a teacher.  Didn't matter what I taught, got paid the same as any other teacher with the same number of years.  Do a good job or a poor job, money is the same.  Why are there so many complaints about our school systems?  Any correlation here?

As an owner of a company, I agree with DanG, it is my responcibility to make sure the morale of my people is good.  It is imperative that I listen to them.  Not just their words, but their actions too.  But, I believe it is hard to make a slacker change if they start out as a slacker, once a slacker always a slacker.  BUT, I can also make a hard worker into a slacker if I am a poor manager.  

My parents went through the depression, it is not all that many years ago.  There are scenerios that  could plunge us back into those times.  Weather, natural disasters, wars, disease, social upheaval, energy shortages, etc.  

We can do our part by teaching our children that we must give 100 per cent to every job we do.  If we are not treated well, we should look for another job that compensates us for our abilities. Get educated.  It helps us answer when opportunity knocks.  

I could go on the rest of the evening.  I can't change anyone else.  I can do my best to see that my kids head in the right direction, do my best to make sure my employees are justly rewarded with money, appreciation, days off and other perks that we can provide. They loved the day we cooked really good big T-bone steaks for lunch.  I show them the e-mails from satisfied customers.

I will not knowingly buy any food from China.

[fat olde elf]

Many answers to this question can be found in Thomas Friedman's book, "The world is flat" It is a frightening overview of our future if we continue make the same mistakes over and over again.  Only 2 of the eight places I worked in fifty years of paying taxes even exist today.........Go figure.......that doesn't count 3 years in the US Army.............God bless America.............