Sharpening Chain with a file

[tim1234]

I've been reading all the posts on sharpening chain.  I thought I was doing a pretty good job.   I just threw a chain last night and it dammaged the drivers so the chain would not fit into the groove of the bar.  So I put on a new chain (anti kickback style).  Wow did the saw cut great.  I'm not sure what I am doing wrong.  I know to set the rakers at the right height and have the jig to do that.  I also have the roller jig pictured below.



What am I doing wrong.  I just bought 2 of the woodsman pro chains for my Husky 455 Rancher and will see how they compare.  But I must be doing something wrong.  I'm also not sure what type of file I have been using.   It came in the sharpening kit with the roller jig.  I also bought a dozen files from Baileys as well.  I'm hoping I was using a rough file and the new (better) files will do the trick.  The book "Principles of General Tree Work" says that if the teeth are not all at the same level it will not affect the cutting of the chain.  Is this really true.  Would it make a differece if I took the chain to a shop to have it sharpend by a grinder every once in a while?  what's a good price to have a chain sharpend.  At $12 per chain, I can't see paying more than $6 to get a chain sharpend.

Thanks

Tim

[sawguy21]

The left hand cutter the file is on appears shorter than the right ones pictured and the one at the very top looks like it has been filed past the limit. This often happens because the easier side tends to get filed more. Depending whether you are left or right handed, do the awkward side first. Your angle appears o.k., is the file the right size for the chain?

[Jeff]

I've never been taught how to file a chain, and the results are with my attempts are horrible.  GIve me a saw 5 foot in diameter and I'll give you a saw that can cut paper thin slices. Give me a chainsaw and forget about it.  I really need to learn.

[tim1234]

Sawguy21,

The pic is from an old post and is not mine.  My chain is pretty new and has a lot less wear than the one in the pick.  I did rock the chain or concrete the chain.  It took quite a few strokes to get sharp.  I found the only baseball size piece of concrete within 300' of where I was cutting :'(.  I try to use the same strokes on each side, but I am right handed and it is pretty tough to get the same stroke on both sides.  I bought one of those stump vices and hope to get it by the weekend and try it out.

I will go back to the garage and take a closer look at the chain and see if I can see a difference in the cutter lenghts on each side.

[beenthere]

..................(deleted   ;D ;D....................
tim1234
You beat me on your post, so have answered some of my inquiry.  Hitting the rock helps knowing a bit more, somewhat. Check out the file diam. needed. Experience is a big thing, and knowing how the chain teeth look and are supposed to look is a real big help.  When hitting a rock, or fence wire, or a nail, I take the chain to someone with a grinding setup. They usually hog a lot off, but the end result is all the teeth are equal in length, angle, and depth (at least that is the way it is supposed to happen).  ;D

edit
Is that jig in the photo supposed to work on an anti-kickback chain?  I'd think not, but don't know. The one in the pic is mine, and it is shown on a worn-out chain (one that found wire in a log, and was just back from a chain-grinding at my saw dealer). But it was handy for the pic showing that jig. I like that jig, but also do it free-hand too.

[Barkman]

"The book "Principles of General Tree Work" says that if the teeth are not all at the same level it will not affect the cutting of the chain."

I would agree that there can be some variability, but I'd say that the more uniform the teeth are the better.  I used to use a guide, but now sharpen freehand.  The guide I had caused me to sharpen the top of each tooth too much and not create the "hook" that you need to get a really good cut.  Now I try to follow the "angle stripe" on the top of the tooth, if there is one, and get enough depth to get that "hook."  I also feel the point of the tooth to see if it feels sharp.  

Anti-kickback chain makes it hard to adjust your cut depth.  That may be part of your problem, but I can't tell from the top view in the picture.  With a regular pro chain, I normally file the rakers down a bit when the teeth are about half worn.  I use a raker file and do two passes on the top of the raker and one angled on the face.  This is hard to demonstrate in text though.

The best advice I can give is to try what I've outlined above and change, moderately, if it doesn't give you that "new chain feel."  I am now able to get my chains to cut as when they were new through almost their entire life.

[tim1234]

I checked the file diameter and know I'm using the correct one.  I've got 2 file sizes one for my CS-300 (5/32") and one for the 455 Rancher (7/32").  The rocked chain is toast unless I can file down the drivers so they will fit into the bar groove again.  That chain guard did it's job when I threw the chain, but it did a number on the chain too.

I seem to have similar results when I sharpen the echo chain too.  Cuts great new until I touch it with the file ;D

[sawguy21]

A lot of shops tend to grind too much and burn the chain because of haste and inexperience. The summer student is given a five minute tutorial and turned loose. I soon learned my first boss did not know a lot more about it than I did :D The Oregon site offers a lot of good information.

[Dan_Shade]

i think the tooth length thing is slightly over rated.  it only shows up when bucking large logs, it will give you a curved cut.  However, this isn't really a good thing when felling a tree...

I like a file, i touch up the teeth every tank full.  a stump vise makes it much easier.  try turning the saw around if you have trouble changing directions.

When using a file, make the last stroke or two very light, and make sure that you are sharpening the corner to a point, and the entire top plate.  It's not hard, I promise!

[jokers]

OK, I now realize that picture is Beenthere`s and not your`s Tim but I have a comment about it anyway. That picture shows a file that is too large for the tooth based on the amount of file that I can see, it will take the leading edge of the topplate too far back without sharpening it(actually blunting it) and it will not give you a positive sideplate angle, so if your setup looks exactly like his we know where atleast one of the problems lies.

Been there already knows this and his picture was simply for an illustration of the filing jig, but for those who don`t know I`m going to tell you that you need to reduce the file diameter one size once you get about halfway back on the tooth to maintain the correct angles. Even a chain with little nubbins for teeth will cut well when filed properly.

Now for the depth gauges. If you have the filing jig pictured you don`t need a seperate jig, that type jig or a Carlton File-O-Plate are the two best since they reference only the tooth attached to each raker as it is being lowered. The other gauges average the tooth heights and the cutting will be dramatically slower if all of your teeth aren`t perfectly uniform in length.

Is there any way that you can get a close up pic or two of your filed chain and your file jig set up on the chain Tim?

[thecfarm]

I use to have a hard time sharping my chainsaw,years ago.This is what I found out and works wonderful for me,even after hitting a rock.This I feel with depend if someone is left or right handed.When the saw head is on my left I take 3 strokes with the file,when the head is on the right I only take 2.I quess it is more comforable for me to file when the head is on the left,I take more off and I don't realize I'm even doing it.I might have this backwards,but I'm not filing a chain right now.Been working for me for 25 years now.I can use a chain until it is just about gone and it will still draw itself into the wood pretty good and cut nice and straight.No more circles for me.My father use to kinda thing I was crazy doing this,but it works for me just fine.This is all done free hand with no gauges.
At $6 I would learn how to shapen a chain myself.That's about the going rate here from the saw shop that I go to.Took me a few chains, :D to figure it out to.But I got it.Just keep praticing until you get it.I had a good size log that I learned on.Just kept filing until I got it through my thick head what I was doing wrong.

[tim1234]

Jokers,

I'll take a pic of the chain tonight and post it. There is significantly less wear on my chain than the one in the pic.

Do you need to reduce file size even though the jig is angled so the file is lowered as you take more of the tooth off?  I would think this lowering of the file would take care of the file dia issue.  Or am way off :

[jokers]

Tim,

I hate to say that you are way off but if you look at a tooth from the side you will realize that it is lower in height at the back vs the front, right? As you file toward the back you will eventually reach a point where the file is cutting into the tie straps, or you can`t file any more. Optimally, 1/5 of the file diameter is above the topplate when filing, if you can`t maintain a full 1/5, the inside of the topplate becomes blunt and the sideplate angle, or hook disappears. This will slow your chain significantly.

[tim1234]

got it.  Thanks!

[beenthere]

jokers is right on. I pic'd the wrong file, and a bad example of a chain, to show anything more than what the jig looked like.. ;D

I go to a smaller diam. file when the teeth are further back and when the 1/5 rule comes into play. A tooth has many angles to get right, and this has to be repeated on all the teeth, plus the rakers at the right height. It is a challenge, but rewarding when your chain cuts wood like butter....

[RSteiner]

Well sirs,  I"m finding it a real convienice to get that there chain to cut in a circle.  You just start that felling cut at the top and just curve it right around and come out the bottom in one motion.  The back cut is a little tricky you have to start at the proper place on the trunk to get those circles to line up at the hindge.

I striggled with filing by hand for what seemed like the longest time.  Getting both sides equally sharp seems to be the the major battle.  The length of the tooth from one side to the other seems less important than getting the top of the tooth sharp at the point and the opposite end of the point.  The angle the top of the tooth is filed at will make a difference in the way the saw pulls into the wood as well as the height of the raker.  Too much hook and the saw will pull right into the wood, too little and it cuts slow and makes saw dust. 

I find the little score mark on the top of the tooth to be a good general guide to follow.  A little variation or this angle when cutting soft wood or hard wood can make a difference.  However, unless you are cutting all hard wood or soft wood follow the line.  Chainsaw milling is an other story all together.

Rakers that are too low makes for a grabby chain and too high makes sawdust and slow going.  I like to use the file guide that holds the file underneath and has a plate that rests on the raker and the top of the tooth.  It also has angle marks on the top that help you keep the top angle consistant.  I have used the roller guide and with a little pratice you can do a good job.

I made a jig to hold the chain when it is off the saw.  This allows me to hold the chain tight by the driver and to turn the chain around so I can get both sides close to equal in length and angle while standing in a comfortable place without the power head of the saw in the way.  Observation is a critical element, try one thing and see how it cuts and what the difference is when you vary that one thing. 

Randy

[SwampDonkey]

 :D :D :D :D I have learned to sharpen a chain pretty good free hand. It has so much bite that the Husky 55 almost lacks the umph to chew down through a stick.  8) Same with a brush saw blade, I like to just be able to touch the throttle and have the blade spin with out hearing womp womp all the time. Means the difference between 2.5 points and 4 cut in a day. ;D

[timberjack240]

the only thing i can tell ya is keep practicin .. thats what i had to do i got my self now to the piont i can sharpen a saw give it to pap whos been cuttin for forty years ..so yoou know hes fussywith his saws.. and ask him how it cut and hes not afraid to tell me but lately hes been givin good reprts lol .. i remeber one time i sharpened up reall good and cut the rakers way low and gave it to him he got a suprised look on his face when he sank it in  ;D but anyway eventuay youll get it .. i used a file guard for a while then here and there i woondt use it and slowly worked my way away from it ...good luck and happy filin

[tim1234]

Here are some pics of my chain.  From my untrained eye it looks pretty good and feels sharp to the touch.  The corner of the tooth feels sharp and the angle looks pretty good.  I did get half of my order from Bailey's today, but not my 7/32" files only the 5/32".  The spiral cut of the files looks a lot better than the files I was using from Lowes.  I think the files from Bailey's are a much finer file so I would hope they will give a finer finish and a sharper edge.  I can't quite get my 6000 grit 4x10 water stone in there ;D

Top views





I checked the rakers with a gauge and they were below the gauge so there was nothing to file.  The pics are a little fuzzy so you will just have to trust me on this one ;D ;)





Here is a close up from the side.  As far as I can tell it is sharp.



But it shure don't cut like my new chain.

Tim

[beenthere]

I'm thinkin that the file used on the teeth pictured is too large for the chain.  Evidence of that in the last photo (at least as I see it). What diam. file is supposed to be used with this chain?  That is the first to know, and what to use.  Looks to me like the cutting edge is the right angle, but the cutting edge shown is too blunt. The file is not dropping down into the gullet of the tooth. 

I don't consider myself an expert, but I do have good results with filing chain teeth. Others may see more here than I do.  Hope we can get ya on track.  Don't give up. 

My Stihl 3/8 chain calls for a 13/64 file, which I use instead of a 7/32 file, but not until filing back about 1/3 of the tooth.  The 5/32 file I use is for a very small tooth on a brush cutter blade.  What diam file is the Lowes?  Also, looking at the cutting edge with a 10X lens will do wonders for what you can see, and tell much more about the good or not so good cutting edge.    The entire gullet of each tooth should show its been filed, the way I see it.   

[tim1234]

I checked the Oregon site and I can't find this exact chain.  The closest I can find is the 72v072G chain and it recommends a 7/32" file.  The chain I bought from bailey's also recomments a 7/32" file, so I'm sure I'm using the right file.

Just for comparison, here are some pics of the new Woodsman Pro chain that came today.

And agin the Oregon Chain



Top View of the Woodsman Pro Chain



The depth of the file looks pretty close, what do ya think?

Tim

[RSteiner]

I'm wondering if you can really sharpen a chisel tooth with a round file the same as when it was originally sharpened when it was new.  When a chain is ground the wheel profile can be matched to the tooth shape so that all the angles are correct.  I don't think that same profile can be matched with just a round file.

I know some folks sharpen their saw chain with a flat file or a combination of flat and round.  I must admit that when I sharpen a new chain with a round file it cuts well but maybe not exactly like it did when it was new.

Randy

[jokers]

The entire gullet of each tooth should show its been filed, the way I see it.

Actually a new tooth with the proper diameter file requires a second step to clean out the gullets when the file is placed at the right height to the tooth. As the tooth is filed back and becomes lower in height filing the tooth and the gullet becomes one step.

[jokers]

I'm wondering if you can really sharpen a chisel tooth with a round file the same as when it was originally sharpened when it was new.  When a chain is ground the wheel profile can be matched to the tooth shape so that all the angles are correct.  I don't think that same profile can be matched with just a round file.

I know some folks sharpen their saw chain with a flat file or a combination of flat and round.  I must admit that when I sharpen a new chain with a round file it cuts well but maybe not exactly like it did when it was new.

Randy

On certain chain such as Stihl it may seem as if you can`t get it just as sharp with filing but the truth is that once you establish the radius in the thicker chrome, you should be able to get the chain sharper than a factory grind.

[jokers]

I checked the Oregon site and I can't find this exact chain.  The closest I can find is the 72v072G chain and it recommends a 7/32" file.  The chain I bought from bailey's also recomments a 7/32" file, so I'm sure I'm using the right file......................The depth of the file looks pretty close, what do ya think?

Tim

Yeah Tim, your hook looks pretty good, maybe a little more on your Oregon chain than your Carlton chain has but it should cut good. I can also see the raker heights and they look like they should be plenty low enough but is this the same Oregon chain that you showed a top view looking down on earlier?

Maybe I`m seeing things that don`t exist in the top view showed earlier, but when I copied that photo and blew it up it looked like you might have had a couple of teeth with subtle dual bevels across the leading edge of the topplate resulting in a rebated working corner and a few of the teeth appeared to have a shadow along the leading edge that normally indicates the edge being slightly peened over making the chain not sharp, even though the working corner might look good upon causal inspection.

I apologize for this critical assessment of your chain if not true. The combined effect of viewing that relatively low resolution photo which I subsequently enlarged and viewed on my LCD monitor might show a picture that is different from what actually exists.