Need Information on deal gone wrong!!!!!!!!!

[Ron Wenrich]

Like Gary says, he's judgment proof.  My bet is that all of his equipment, his belongings, and his money are in his wife's name, or someone else.  They didn't sign the contract, so they're exempt.  I've seen this several times. 

I know of an instance where the lawyer went after a grand larceny case on a timber trespass.  It sure got the logger's attention, even though he was innocent in that particular case. 

[Corley5]

It seems to me that what this guy really needs now is his a** kicked  >:( >:(

[Furby]

Well, let's send him an invite to Jeff's for Saturday. ;D

[Sandra Kay]

He Did it again!  Checked my e-mail and someone who read this forum contacted me.  Same Logger, same mass mailed letter sucked him in, and the meeting went well, seemed like a real honest person, but once the logs were gone, so was he.  It Makes me sick that this man can continue to rip honest people off like that.  One of the cutters was Amish and he even wrote him a rubber check.  That's just wrong!!!!  Like me, this guy dosen't even know where his logs went, and is now in the process of calling random saw mills to see if he can get any information.  One of the sawmills he contacted, claim they also have a lawsuit, and know he has a warrant out for his arrest for rubber checks also. 

My case is still going forward.  My lawyer is in the process of looking into his assets and attaching liens to anything and everything he can.  I honestly never expect to see another dime out this man, but who know's?  Can't just sit by and do nothing about it either can I.

This letter may never be posted, but I can't hold my tounge any longer.  Nothing I write here is untruthful.  Scott Fisher of Jonesville Michigan is the logger I've been trying to collect my money from.  I just want to try and warn anyone thinking of doing business with this man.  Don't do it.  Stay far away from doing any business with this man.  Thanks again, It feels goods to vent.
Sandy

[WDH]

With enough bad press, maybe the mills will no longer deal with him. 

[Ron Scott]

Keep on it. You need to get him into court for civil and criminal charges.

[crtreedude]

The law needs to drop on his neck.  >:( Don't hesitate. File charges and get it done or he will continue to victimize others.

[Brad_bb]

Did the law ever nab him on the warrant?  If you know where he lives...  how come they haven't picked him up on criminal charges?  I'm sure the money is gone and he has little or nothing of value, or has his stuff in relatives names.  I wonder if he doesn't have drug or gambling problems to be using all this money?  He needs to end up in jail.  Hope your lawer is teaming up with that other person who got stung.  States attourney needs to nail this guy!  I'm dissapointed that all of those associations haven't been of any help.

[crtreedude]

One of the biggest scams that these kind of people run is wearing you out. The situation is they don't care about lying to you or anything. So they will say a million things to drag it out, hoping you will give up. The court system, trying to be fair, will give people the benefit of the doubt. After all, you are innocent until proven guilty. So, they work the system. The are shameless and you have to realize it.

Once you have gotten the easy money, the best thing is to hand it over to the police and let them deal with the jerk.

[Sandra Kay]

The reason I don't have his butt arrested, is because legally all he's done according to my lawyer is Breach of contract.  I know it makes no sense at all.  In my mind, he is a criminal, a thief, and more names than I'm comfortable saying.  He's a low life bottom feeder.  My main goal is to of course collect my money, but most important I'd like to just get the word out about this guy and hopefully save somebody some grief.  My lawyer has contacted the two sawmills, and garnished any money they may make on any further deals.  But I expect he'll just use different sawmills.  So hopefully I can get some more leads on any other mills he uses, and make my claims with them also.  It's a slow process thats for sure.  Also looking into anything of value he may own, such as property, home and so forth and attach liens against those.  So there you have it.  But if you are a sawmill owner and you know this guy and think he may be doing business with you, I'd sure appreciate a heads up.  Thanks again.  Sandy

[crtreedude]

Giving a person a check with no intention of there being money is criminal. That isn't breach of contract - that is passing bad checks. Unless he covers the checks (sorry if he has already - didn't go back and check) that is criminal. It is one thing to tell someone "I have no money" but if someone gives you a check, knowing there is no money - that is fraud, pure and simple.

You should ask the police about it - not your lawyer.

[Ron Wenrich]

One thing to remember about loggers is that they sell logs to more outlets than just sawmills.  This guy probably also does business with veneer buyers or log brokers.  He may also sell pulpwood.

These businesses need not be in either your state or country.  But, it does give you some other avenues to pursue besides the traditional sawmill.

Other leads can be generated by checking with some of the local chainsaw dealers and equipment dealers.  He needs to get parts from someplace, and if he stiffed you, he has likely stiffed them.  A little talk with them might open up some of those doors.  People really like to deal dirt on someone that has dealt them a dirty deal.

[Corley5]

I'd be getting or at the very least talking to a different lawyer

[Brad_bb]

Sandra Kay, I thought you said he had a warrant out for his arrest for the writing of bad checks?  Did they pick him up for that yet?  That is a criminal offense and he did it multiple times with you and then with that Amish cutter.  I just looked up the Criminal penalty in Michigan:
"Michigan. Up to $250 fine or six months in jail. Up to $500 fine or one year in jail."
And that is on a per offense basis.  Not as strict as some other states, but it's something.  If you get a weak liberal judge, he could get off with less than $1000 in fines.  Get a good judge and be at the hearing and explain the case to the DA, and he can get some jail time possibly.

[jbeat]

Sandra Kay, In Ohio, a part of the debt collection process is what is called a Judgement Debtors exam. This is a court hearing where the Defendant, under oath, is required to expose all his assets. You may mention this to your attorney to see if Mich. has something similar. Ohio's final step in the debt collection process is when the Sheriff is court ordered to seize these assets to satisfy the judgement. I'd tell your attorney that you'll pay him a percentage (agreed in advance) when the suit is settled. If he won't agree and wants to charge you by the hour than I would find another one. Good luck and be persistent
Jbeat

[Brad_bb]

The bad check writing is criminal, but at this point he can also be charged with grand larceny and a few other things.  Have you spoken with any District attourneys in your district or his?  Or the states attourney?  I can't see how your laywer thinks there aren't any criminal charges here?  Time to get loud!  If attourneys aren't helping you, especially district attourneys, go to the newspapers and try to get them to write a story.  Do this after everything else fails as once you do this they will all either tell you to pound salt or they will move swiftly to do something, depending on the embarassment level.

[Reddog]

You out of state folks need to study up on Mi law.
Bad checks are up to the Sheriff and Prosicuting Attorney of that county, were the check was written. If they don't really feel like helping you, good luck.
You can get a court ruling in your favor, and still never get any money.

Sandra, Keep at it. I know it is frustrating, but keep with it.
I would contact the Attorney Generals office and see what they can help with also.

[james]

Sandra, you could also take all your information and go talk to your postmaster about this loggers use of the U.S. mail to commit fraud the feds tend to get a little cross about that if they are willing to take it on
james

[Sandra Kay]

Quick update, still no money.  I did take your advice about making this public and I called Mr. Fisher and told him that I had a long list of all sawmills, buyers, mills, and anyone else who deals with wood products and I was preparing to send them all a letter, detailing the events of our business transaction and his failure to pay, and ask that they not do further business with him and to inform me if they also had issues with the way he operates.  I also told him I would be going public with the media.  I would tell my story to anyone who would listen and make his name known and hopefully put a stop to his unethical behavior.  He's also a big fan of horse pull events, and I told him I would even stoop so low to tell them of my problems with him.  It's been over a year now that those tree's were removed from my property.

That got his attention.  He at least called me back and says I'll have all my money and court cost fees, paid in full by Christmas.  I did tell him that I won't stop my Lawyer from proceeding with the case, still waiting on the sheriff to get back with us on seizing property.

I don't know if he's telling me the truth as far as payment goes, I do think I'll let my Lawyer know, and have him prepare a promisory note.  Just wish for this whole mess to be over soon.  I'll keep you posted.

[Tom]

It's not the first time that he said he would pay.  Keep on keeping on.

[Phorester]

"That got his attention.  [I really doubt it]. He at least called me back and says I'll have all my money and court cost fees, paid in full by Christmas."

So, what's he doing before Christmas that he doesn't want you to keep him from doing?  Or is he trying to postpone any real collection effort from you until the next calendar year for his own tax reasons or other legal reasons?  Or is Christmas just a convenient date he picked out of the blue when talking to you that he thought would sound reasonable to you?

"I don't know if he's telling me the truth as far as payment goes....,"  [he has repeatedly lied to you about payment for over one year. Why would he not be lying this time?  He has shown you quite clearly for over a year that he cannot be trusted]

He's stringing you along again.  Why are you letting him dictate your actions? 

As suggested earlier, let your lawyer handle all contact with him, let your lawyer do the talking to him, in writing on his letterhead stationery, or in the form of a court summons or other legal action against this man. 

[beenthere]

Sandra
I agree with Phorester, and think you are continually doing the wrong thing...not sure where you are getting your advice. Now, I think he could make a good case that you are harrassing him, and get some court orders against you..not what you want to happen.

But I've had the same impression of the errors you've made all along...and I apologize for the insinuation. I'd really like to see you get the money you are owed, but don't think it's gonna happen with your mode of operandi.

Sorry for the fact that you don't have your money.  : :

[Corley5]

The very first piece of advice your attorney should have given to you was to have NO personal contact with him.  All communication should be through the law office.

[wesdor]

Corley is right, have him take everything through your attorney.

BTW - I suspect that Santa Claus will be making a personal delivery of your money.  (Or perhaps if he is too busy, the Easter bunny will get to it)

[Dan_Shade]

I agree with these other guys, have the lawyer hassle the guy.  it's scarier (for him) and safer (for you).