Peterson sawmills

[Dave Shepard]

I am interested in Peterson sawmills, and have visited their website. I wasn't really able to get a full understanding of their equipment, especially interchangability and upgradability. Is the ASM just an automated WPF? Does the slabber fit all of the models? I am thinking that in our wide flooring operation, it would be nice to be able to break the really big logs down into large cants before putting them on the Wood Mizer. Would it make sense to have a swinger to do this? I was also thinking that having a slabber to make some wide table tops would be handy. Would it make more sense to just use the slabber to square the logs into cants? I would appreciate any Peterson discussion in this thread. Thanks.


Dave

[Ianab]

Is the ASM just an automated WPF?

The frame and tracks are a bit different, so it's not an upgrade option, but the general principle is the same. ASM is not as portable, costs a bit more, but Man can it cut  ;D Realistically you will want a crew of 3 to really keep it working flat out.

Does the slabber fit all of the models?

I'm not sure if the clip on slabber is the same for each model, but one is available for each type of mill.

I am thinking that in our wide flooring operation, it would be nice to be able to break the really big logs down into large cants before putting them on the Wood Mizer. Would it make sense to have a swinger to do this?

Technically, yes you could do that. But by the time you handle the big cants, it may just be easier to leave the log under the swingblade saw and saw it into 8x1s plus some bigger double cut boards and avoid the double handling. Taking it to the bandmill 'might' get you one more board from an 8" cant, or it might not if your bandsaw isn't cutting perfect. I know which method would be less work, especially on an ASM

The slabber works great for the big table top sized boards, but in the end it's still a chainsaw and isn't all that fast. When you are cutting big table slabs it doesn't matter if it takes 5 mins per slab. After an hour the log is gone and you have some great (valuable) slabs. But the bandmill will square up a log MUCH faster.

If you just need the capacity to handle logs that are too big for your Woodmizer then even the ATS mill will handle this fine and still give good production. In the time it takes to quarter an oversize log with a chainsaw you could probably mill the whole log, without moving it, even on the cheaper mills. With a clip on slabber you can change between cutting dimensioned boards and wide slabs in a few minutes and cut the appropiate product from different parts of the log.

Cheers

Ian

[Dave Shepard]

Thanks Ian, that helps. I forgot to add a few key things in the repost (I lost the first attempt) My goal is to take logs that are 34" small end and up and try to get very large cants, as big as 28"x28" so that I can make very wide flooring boards. In my experience, I can take a pine log that is 32"x16' long, that has little taper, and saw it in about 2-2.5 hours. I get well over 800 feet of flooring, some of which is 24" wide. If you increase the log to about 34" small end, and a bit of taper, say 40" at the big end, it can take 6-8 hours, and a lot of ripping with the chainsaw to clear the outer guide bearing. If I can take these logs down to an ideal cant width, and saw out just the widest boards on the bandmill, it will be a great savings in time, as well as labor. Turning a 3600 pound log with a cant hook is no fun. Due to the high value of these boards, it is worth the time, but finding a better way warrants an investigation. We have used an Alaskan mill in the past to reduce some of these logs, but that hasn't worked out so well, perhaps that was the operators though.


Dave

[Ianab]

OK.. thats gives us a better idea of what you are doing. 

The 30" plus logs is where the swingmills start to shine  ;D

The problem with what you are planning is that the standard swingmills have no conventional log handling like a bandsaw does. You can roll the logs to cut other sides, but like you said, 3600lb+ logs and cant hooks are hard work. You then have to break out the jack and re-level the log with various shims. Can be done of course, and if you are talking hours to saw a log, then 5 mins with a jack isn't an issue.

It might be an option to set up a fairly solid log deck under the swingblade to help handle the logs. Then you could saw various 8"-16" inch boards, flip the log and do the same, leaving a 24" thick slab to move to the band mill. The 24" 'slab' could then just be sawn to the deck without any extra handling.

Having both mills and a slabber would really open up the options with the big logs though  8)
Realistically I think you could spend an hour or so with the swingblade and then about the same on the bandmill to break down a 40" log into mostly 16" and 24" boards.

Cheers

Ian

[Dave Shepard]

Log handling is the same for both mills, my new 60" LogRite. ;)


Dave

[bandmiller2]

Ok Dave now I know why you like your logrite peavy,that big stuff is a buster.I'am sure the peterson would do what you want problem is moving the log.What if you made a carrage on vee wheels that rolled into the side of the peterson ,dress top and down sides as far as you can then wheel out turn over with your loader.final squaring could be done on the mizzer.I wasted the whole morning last friday getting a 4"x24" bark side bar top trying to fit it between the guides. Frank C.

[bandmiller2]

Dave anouther option find an old circle mill set it up to just square cants,wouldn"t have to be latest and greatest and it would probibly be much cheaper than a new swingblade.Their are quite a few old circle mills laying fallow in the weeds. Frank C.

[Dave Shepard]

I know where there are a bunch of old circle mills around, most of them under collapsed sheds. :( I wish I had the funds to rescue some of them. I have a few ideas for log handling. If this mill is outside, we can use the log truck for loading. I was also thinking of two chains that come up under the log and spin it. I have lots of ideas, no money to build them though. :


Dave

[Captain]

Dave, if you are ever wandering out of the Berkshires over to the Southeast, let me know.  We can saw up some of the big ones I've got here.

Captain

[Dan_Shade]

Dave, why don't you give a big alaskan with a large displacement chainsaw a shot?  that would work pretty good for squaring up large logs.

[Dave Shepard]

We've got a 60" Alaskan with two 394XPs on it. The boss has tried the squaring thing a couple of times, but not to my satisfaction. I've actuall been eyeing a couple of 60' I-beams down in the gravel pit, would make great rails for a dedicated slabber. Probably have enough stuff hanging around to make one. I would make a complete bed system with hyd dogs and turner. Dont' know if the boss wants to get into that kind of project or not.


Dave

[Dan_Shade]

what are your expectations, Dave?

I tend to hack things down with the chainsaw, then true it up afterwards on the bandsaw.  what type of production levels are you aiming for?

[Dave Shepard]

In the past, we the boss and cronies, have tried to saw off two parallel adjacent sides of the log so that it can be set directly on the deck and I can saw it down from there. However, the two sides have never been even close to 90°, and the cuts are not anywhere near flat enough for a finished board edge. The straighter the board edge, the wider the finished product after drying and edge jointing. The ideal is to have a cant that is 24" wide and as tall as possible, and just saw straight down, something you can get away with cutting pine. If I take a gnarly hacked up cant, and then have to straighten it on the mill, then I have two problems, one, it is probably going to end up producing narrower boards, and will have to be turned several times, something that is a bit of a problem by yourself with a manual mill.


Dave

[Dan_Shade]

that is kind of tough, especially if you want to minimize turning by hand....

[Dave Shepard]

If we do the breaking down of the log outside, we have all manner of heavy equipment to handle the log, but we cannot get to the WM inside the sawmill. I wish the ceiling in the mill was a little higher, then we could put in an air hoist and sling the logs to turn them. I have done this with large slabs of marble, it works well.


Dave

[DanG]

I've been sitting here figuring out ways to up your production, but realized I don't even know if you need/want to.  If those wide flooring planks are valuable, it seems to the outsider that you would want to produce as many as possible.  But, if the plant can't handle more, or you can't get the logs, increased production at the saw wouldn't be of much value, so I'll quit worrying about that and try to address the actual question. : :D

Now, I can certainly see using a Peterson to make those big cants.  What I envision is setting it up stationary with a good solid deck under it, designed and built specifically for your purpose.  One of the problems with using a swinger to make cants in the field is that the saw isn't necessarily parallel with the bunks, which would make your cants tapered.  The stationary deck would correct that, and also provide a way to make that second side square with the first.  You could make a toeboard with a floor jack to take care of the taper.  The 8" WPF would make quick work of those cants that way.  I'm thinking the Lucas would be a better choice than the ATS, since it adjusts from end to end rather than side to side, but either would be just fine.  You'd just have to adjust very carefully to be sure your cant comes out square.

[Dave Shepard]

Higher production isn't really the biggest worry, after all, any increase in production on the WM is going to be offset, to a degree, by the breaking down process and additional equipment. I am really trying to find a way to do this without getting any more back injuries. I also feel that by the time I take a too large log, or gnarly cant, and get it squared up into something managable on the WM, I have wasted a portion of the log, and reduced the quantity of very wide boards that I could have gotten from the log. There is a lot of good pine in the area for this type of work, but most people aren't cutting due to the low prices for pine, so maximizing the logs we do get is vital. If I can make up a cant that is in the 24"-28" range, It will yield a product that is not only valuable, but not readily available. I realize that cants in this range will have some wane on them, but will still yield about 60% or more full width boards. It would take a log that is over 40" small end to yield a 28" square cant. I also agree that a stationary mill would be a requirement, possibly with some hydraulic features. (As you can see, my wheels have been spinning over time this afternoon. I already have a dedicated slabber, with deck and hydraulics, designed out of the spare junk we have laying around the yard. : ;D)


Dave

[Ianab]

I think you can get away with a basic but solid deck.

What I would do..

Set up the mill on a concrete pad so you can keep everything in line.
Set up 2 bunks that are exactly lined up with the mill rails.
When you load the log for the first time place a shim on the small end bunk. You could have a selection of sizes to cater for varying taper on the logs. It doesn't have to be perfect, but you want the pith approximatly centred at this point. Drop the log into place with crane or forks etc and wedge it to keep it steady. Big logs dont need fancy dogs to keep them still, just some wedges to stop them rolling.

Now you open the top of the log and just saw whatever you see. You can double cut wide boards or vertical cut q-sawn 6-8" stuff if you have a use for that. When you get down to 12" from the centre of the log stop and flip it over. The clever part is you remove the shim thats on the bunk. Now the bunks, log and mill rails are all lined up again. The flat part of the log just sits on the bunks, it wont move anywhere, it still weighs a ton or more. You just approx line it up with the mill again by sliding one end with a crowbar etc.

Now the sawn faces will be exactly parrallel as long as nothing else has moved.

Repeat the sawing on this face and you should have a 24" thick 'D' log that you can load upright on the bandsaw and cut without having to roll it again.

Cheers

Ian

[stonebroke]

Hudson has a bandmill that cuts 52 inches That might be what you are looking for.

Stonebroke

[Furby]

I'm going to take a different approach to this.
It sounds like the Alaskan will do what you need it to, but the crew couldn't perform.
Take the Alaskan and do a quick mod to it.
Make a new pair of posts for it so that you have a 28" depth of cut capacity.
Take the top cut off the log and then DON'T roll it.
Adjust the Alaskan for your 28" and use the flat side already cut as your guide.
Very, very important to use lots and lots of wedges or shims as you make the cut.
Long shallow wedges.
You should end up with your two cuts pretty paralle, and only a light cut should be needed to clean up the board edges afterwards.
If you can find some scrap steel the right size, it won't cost much to try it. ;)