I've been inspired.....

[Tony]

   After my last custom saw job, I'm inspired (forced) to write up a contract. Usually we know our customers pretty good and we have no trouble. I had quoted him a price and assumed (i know what you're going to say) that the logs would be cut to length, in one spot and a tractor driver available. but nooooooooo. Not to mention him standing there measuring and "grading" almost every board that come off the mill. We all know how ERC has quite a few doty spots in the heart and it's not the mill's fault.
   The first couple of days everything had to be 1x4 or 1x6, but after he saw how much was going into the sticker pile he changed his mind to "just get what you can get" and things got a little better. Well 3000bf later and money has changed hands I feel a little better, not much though.
   Yes, I know I should have "set him straight" but I just decided to let it be a learning experience and get the contract typed up. I have the WoodMizer contract, but would like your input on some extras that are not mentioned or what some of ya'll do to avoid this situation.

                                                       Tony   :D

[ely]

i let folks know ahead of time if i am sawing their logs, it costs x amount per bd ft. and if they choose crappy logs it aint my deal. that way i get paid no matter the quality of lumber.

[Tom]

don't jump the gun, Tony.  It's good to have a contract, and also good to know when to use it.  Some folks won't saw without one.  My customer base would lose my phone number if I started having them sign contracts.  Out of all of my years of sawing, there are only two instances when I wished that I had had a contract and it probably wouldn't have helped anyway. I turned my wife loose on them.  A deed not to be wished on anyone.

I have had situations where the customer was like the one you just had.  If I go back, I find that they have calmed the second time around and are more ameniable to letting me get on with business and for them to help.  The outside ace in my hand is that I don't have to go back.  That's the beauty of working for yourself.  Yes, I ran into one person who I refused to service anymore.  He tried everything from his typical snideness to bribery, but I had already classified him as a Jerk.  Life is just too short.

Before you think that you have to use a contract all of the time, think of how it makes you look.  If you are all business, then you will probably get away with it.  If you run a neighborly, word of mouth operation, it might shade you a bit

Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not against contracts.  When you find that you need one, it's usually too late to enter into an agreement.   Still, I've found that the general, down-home, customer is more friendly to a handshake, and, the pride of doing business like that will give him reason to be a good customer and you a good service provider too.

Sometimes the only way to get these kinds of customers to understand is to point-blank tell them.  You can't be responsible for the quality of their lumber/wood.  

They are used to going to HD and picking through the lumber bin for something that the want.  When you saw, the lumber bin is all their's to begin with.  You can, in all fairness, stop sawing when the wood becomes so rotten that it won't make a board, but not produce silk purses from cow's ears.

This may also be a situation to offer an hourly fee for being on-site.

[slidecreekdan]

Get that contract when needed.
Nice guy brought his logs to be milled.  After his logs were sawed, he thought I sawed to much lumber out of his logs.  Said he didnt realize I would cut that much out of the logs.
  The bill was more than he wanted to pay for, so when I told him the bill had to be paid before he took the lumber, he seems to have come up with the money.
  And he is a wealthy man to boot.
  Cover your own AAAA s  at all times.

[ely]

most times i saw lumber for folks i saw on the halves, they pick a log i pick a log. when we are done divving up the logs i saw theirs up.
other times i saw for money only. i have only once had to show a fella that his log was gonna have some not so great lumber in it, he wanted it anyway so i cut it for him. i am fortunate here that most folks are savvy on the log business and they are tired of getting ripped off by the other sawmillers, to the point they do not hassle me about my prices to an extent.

[dad2nine]

Wished I had a contract when I took two weeks vacation off work and sawed for 2 weeks straight on site. When it came time to pay the bill -  He said and I quote "I am not going to pay you" My Lawyer daughter told me - I had ZERO recourse, no contract, his logs on his property.  Some people are plain A holes and this A hole set me back a right pretty penny. I still don't think I have fully recouped from it. Now I don't move my mill - they bring me the logs. At least when they bring me logs I can hang on to the lumber till they pay. If they decide not to pay I sell the lumber, it's pretty easy. I will contract if it's a big job, like the horse barn I cut out this summer. It made sense to contract for something that large and time consuming.

I'm not alone either another sawyer guy close to me told me he got burned 3 times sawing on site, he now requires 1/2 estimated payment upfront, before he'll even think about hooking his mill to the back of his pickup truck. It's not complete strangers I need to be concerned about, it's people I know but not very well that seem to be the deadbeats.

[Tony]

    Thanks fellas, all good advice as usual. I just want to be prepared next time. Out of all my past customers, this has been my only bump in the road, and it was a small one.

      "I am not going to pay you" Dad2,9 I hope I don't hear that one.

                                            Thanks, Tony ;D

[logwalker]

Dad2Nine, I would have called the police and sworn out a warrant of theft of services. Depending on the caliber of your local sheriff I think that you would have an excellent case against the low life jerk. If you think about it, you have the piles of lumber, the slabs, and the sawdust with your equipment sitting in the middle of it all. How is the jerk going to prove that you did it for free. It would at least create a good witness for your court case. I would not have left until the snake gave me the money. You can also put a mechanics lean on the property that should hold up.

[J_T]

 smiley_swinging_board I think a board meating may of been in order :D

[LOGDOG]

Dad2nine,

   Google "mechanics and materialsman lien". You'll find it enlightening as may your daughter. No one has the right to accept/receive services or goods from you and then say "I am not going to pay you". In my contract now I literally have language in there that says that they agree to be held subject to the requirements of the "mechanics and materialmans lien provisions" should they not pay me in full upon my request. They also agree that the lumber may not be moved, altered/used, sold, or changed in anyway until payment has been made in full and I supply them with a paid in full invoice releasing them from further responsibility. I got burned one too many times myself. Now they can sign it or I don't care. See ya! A wise man told me in the recent past that "a contract will sit still right there on that table and let you write anything you want on it - take advantage of it".

   By the way ... if you have trouble finding that on google let me know and I'll send you a link.


LOGDOG

[dad2nine]

Tony I sure hope you never run into jerk that will come right and say they are not going to pay you.

You guys are right, my mistake was when the job was done I left the property and came back at the agreed upon date and time for payment. You guys are also right don't leave till your paid in full... and take pictures. Not only are they cool to share with your customers, I think they could be used as evidence you were there and did work. For bigger jobs, I now get it in writing, specifically for people I don't know real well. I only had one person question me about a contract and I was very honest and told them what happened. He understood and didn't hesitate to sign on the X.

I really liked doing the mobile sawmill thing, it was cool to meet new folks and for the most part folks were down right friendly and fed you well  . I must admit the mill stayed busy too. But when your small time like I am, it's doesn't take much to set you back :-\ Besides I was always concerned about being bonded and insured. It's much better and a lot less risky to have customers bring me logs. At least if they don't pay I have the lumber to try and recoop my costs, ya know.

Thanks

[dad2nine]

Dad2nine,

   Google "mechanics and materialsman lien". You'll find it enlightening as may your daughter. No one has the right to accept/receive services or goods from you and then say "I am not going to pay you". In my contract now I literally have language in there that says that they agree to be held subject to the requirements of the "mechanics and materialmans lien provisions" should they not pay me in full upon my request. They also agree that the lumber may not be moved, altered/used, sold, or changed in anyway until payment has been made in full and I supply them with a paid in full invoice releasing them from further responsibility. I got burned one too many times myself. Now they can sign it or I don't care. See ya! A wise man told me in the recent past that "a contract will sit still right there on that table and let you write anything you want on it - take advantage of it".

   By the way ... if you have trouble finding that on google let me know and I'll send you a link.


LOGDOG

Thanks for the info