Renewable Energy bill passed

[StorminN]

I don't like the idea of Congress adding stuff onto other bills, but I have to get behind this one... which was passed as part of the "bailout" package:

Congress Sets Stage for Solar Boom

-Norm.

[sawguy21]

I am a little uneasy about the nanny state getting that involved in the financial industry but we will just have to wait a few months and see how this plays out. I still do not understand how the financial institutions allowed the situation to get to this stage.

[Ron Wenrich]

Mostly because they didn't know what they were investing in.  Wall Street bundled those risky mortgages into mortgage backed bonds.  It sounds good, if you knew how all the mortgages were made.  But, being bundled, you were buying a pig in the poke.  That's what brought down the European banks. 

They also have done that to credit card debt and auto loans.  A good salesman is one that can market debt.  I try to avoid debt.

I think the bill would have been fine without the pork, including anything that needs to be subsidized.  If its a good bill, then it should stand on its own two legs.

Solar is heavily subsidized in Europe.  Everyone has solar collectors on their houses, and they have put them up in their fields.  I'm not necessarily against subsidization.  But, I do know that the biomass energy plants were all treated unfairly, and are still treated unfairly.  We have to get by on our economics.  Subsidization only benefits the manufacturer, but doesn't encourage them to become any more economically efficient.  The subsidy takes away the incentive to lower prices or make new innovations.  Reward the innovation with a bonus.

[John Mc]

Of course, some would view the subsidies for renewable energy as just attempting to level the playing field for all the subsidies petroleum and nuclear-based energy get.

[LeeB]

 ???

[John Mc]

???

If you really want the thread to drift that far off topic, I guess I can give some examples...

Big tax breaks for oil companies, for one. How about extending similar breaks to other energy sources?

Protection from liability for the Nuclear power companies in the event of "problems". How many other industries are so well insulated from the side effects of their operation?

John Mc

[LeeB]

Give me an example with some meat to it and I'll let it drop.

[John Mc]

If you are really interested, it's not difficult to research it yourself. I'm no expert at internet research, but a quick google search turns up thousands of hits.

Here's one article from CNN from last February on Bush threatening to veto a bill which would roll back nearly 18 billion in tax breaks for large oil companies. The bill authorizing those breaks was passed in 2005 to "help domestic manufacturers compete with foreign companies."

For information on the Nuclear liability limitations, google nuclear energy liability protection or similar phrases. Or better yet search on "Price-Anderson Act". Here's one link that describes some of the concerns about the Price-Anderson Act.

If you want more information, I suggest you do the research yourself.

Note that I'm not necessarily saying that there is never a reason to subsidize anything, just that these subsidies do in fact exist (whether direct or indirect). When a subsidy exists, it distorts the market in favor of the subsidized industry or technology. Often times, these distortions are intentional, whether for political, environmental or other reasons. Some of those reasons are good and reasonable (IMO), some are not.

My point in my earlier post was to raise the issue that subsidies are out there in many forms. To assume that the current playing field is level is incorrect. There are some very good reasons that it is not level. There are also a lot of bad reasons. If a subsidy is exists for a good reasons (to foster energy independance, for example), there may still be some undesirable side affects (making it tougher for alternative or complementary technologies to emerge and compete against the subsidized industry).

Sorry for the soapbox. Got to get some use out of that economics degree somehow...

[LeeB]

Is a tax break a subsidy? The U.S. is on of the most onerous places in the world to drill as far as taxing is concerned. Maybe it's just because I happen to work in the industry, but I really get tired of the same old retoric all the time about the oil industry. Yes they make big money but the margins aren't really that high. Shear volume leads to much of the huge numbers. I understand no one likes the high prices. Niether do I. Fuel costs me the same as it does everyone else. Do I want to see alternatives? You bet I do. I just don't want to pay for them with my tax dollar. Ok, I'll shut up now.