A newbie looking for info

[dooleysm]

Hello to everyone.  I came here on the recommendation of the guys on tractorbynet.  First, a bit of background...

I live on 40 acres, with 30 acres of woods.  I have a college buddy that comes over from time to time to 'play' around outside.  We've done all kinds of things through the years.  My buddy is a pretty accomplished woodworker and we're both engineers by day.  He recently made a toybox for me (well, really for my boys) and we got to talking about the cost of woodworking grade wood (he lives in Indianapolis) and how it was a shame to have a whole forest full of trees and waste money buying wood.  Jack Daniels and a few of his buddies were in on this conversation as well.

Anyway, we ended up cutting a few small logs from some hickory trees I had laying by the road from a different project, and taking them to the local saw mill.  The more we talked about it, the more interested we got in it, and we ended up cutting a bunch (well, a handfull of logs, but a bunch for us) of maple and pine from the woods.  The logs are sitting out at my place waiting to go to the mill. 

In the mean time, I got to talking with my father in law, and a good buddy of his apparently has a portable sawmill he's wanting to sell.  At this point we know next to nothing about the mill, except that this guy used it to saw the logs for his son and son in law's homes, so it must be at least a fairly capable mill.  He was asking $4000 for it, but my FIL thinks we can get it for $3500.  Now you know everything about the mill that we know.

That was more than we wanted to spend on something to play around with...until I got to talking with my cousin, who was VERY interested in the whole deal.  He has a bit of experience in this area, as he has a boom truck and cuts up trees as part of his business.  I think he sells some logs from time to time.

So, my buddy and I are interested in it mostly from a learning experience standpoint.  He would love to be able to cut down and mill his own wood to build things.  I am always using 2x4, 2x6, etc. for building all kinds of things around my small hobby farm.  My cousin is always needing lumber for his business and has a pretty constant supply of logs.  $3500 divided 3 ways is getting into the realm of an affordable toy, especially if we can get some usable lumber out of it to show our significant others.  Additionally, my father has a forestry degree, but hasn't done much in that field since he graduated, but he's still fairly interested in this endeavor and can at least help us identify trees.

So, that's the background.  We're hoping to get together and actually look at the mill sometime over the holidays.  If the mill is in good shape I have a feeling we'll end up with it.

So I guess my main question is, what do we do after we bring it home?

[beenthere]

Welcome to the forum.

Now you just saw wood logs into lumber.... ;D ;D

Seriously, you are on a good track. And came to a good place for info. I came from TBN, and this is a similar good bunch of helpful guys.

What is the mill? a circular saw mill, or a band mill?

[Stephen1]

Welcome to the forum, after you get the mill home start cutting those logs, with the mistakes you make you will be able to heat your shop.  :D

[Tom]

"Yor in a lotta trouble, boy!"

It just so happens that that (double word sentence) is how we all tend to get into sawmilling.  It kinda sneaks up on you.

In a nutshell:  A push mill (a little ground mounted mill with no bells or whistles) will cost $3500-$6000 new.  It makes a great Farm sawmill, when you are cutting an occassional log or two.

If you think you will be getting into much production, you will soon be looking for hydraulic log handling and more horsepower.

A good engine size for either type of mill is 18 to25 horses in gas.  The more you saw, the bigger engine you will want, even going to diesel to get longivity and torque.

If you are interested, buy the mill.  If you don't, you will always regret not having tried.

If you have a small farm, you need a mill.  Anyone with fences, gates, barns and other outbuildings, needs a small mill.  Their only other alternative is to keep a couple of thousand board feet of lumber stored somewhere.

If you are into wood-working, you will love being able to saw special cuts and special woods.  Things that the shopper in the box store can't get.

You will oooooing and ah-h-h-hing over quartersawed sycamore and crotch cuts from oak or hickory, hauling home magnolia logs from Florida vacations and have your nose stuck into every land-clearing operation within 50 miles of your house.

You will also need to consider that bands don't last long.  Usually 400-1000 board feet, dending on the size of the mill, and then they will need to be sharpened.  Or, you might consider buying sharpening equipment yourself and learning that as well.

You will need a chainsaw or  misery whip, a cant hook or two, possibly a skid hook and even, eventually, a trailer for logs and a tractor for handling them around the mill.

Sawmilling can be messy too.  You have to start out right and try to keep everything in order.  Don't just throw boards down or throw slabs into a pile.  Keep everything neat and orderly.  You will have to find a use for your slabs.  Some of them can be used in rustic furniture but they make good firewood too. Sawdust will accumulate, but it makes good compost.

Don't tell all of your friends that you have a mill or you will never get your own stuff cut.  Wait until you get some experience and an inventory before you do too much work for others.  It gets to be a business real quick.

You will soon follow this with a building to stack lumber in and might even look into a kiln.  They don't have to be special, even though NYLE, who is a sponsor, makes them and Den Socling, as well as Don Lewis are always around here answering questions.  You can make a solar kiln yourself.

Hang around and ask questions.  We all learn from that.  Read old posts, the knowledge base and find someone, preferably a Forestry Forum member, close by where you can visit a running mill.

You're gonna like this.  :D :D :D

Get your father involved in this forum. He will enjoy the comraderie of the Degreed Foresters we have as members.

[dooleysm]

A bit more info based on some comments...

I live in southern Indiana, and have updated my profile for reference, sorry I forgot to do that at first, I know the TBNers like to see that.

My FIL 'claims' this is a top of the line bandsaw sawmill, with a diesel engine and hydraulics.  He's prone to exagerration, but I know the fella that owns it, and he is the type to go all out.  I have a feeling it's a good deal.

I do have the need for fence posts and am planning to build a smallish (well, 18x18 or so) goat barn in the next year or so.  Though I do have a good supply for lumber, as my inlaws own a construction supply company about 10 minutes away.  I am not at all into wood working and have no interest in doing it myself.  My buddy, that is in for 1/3 does have that interest.

The bandsaw blades were something we were curious about, whether to try to sharpen them ourselves, pay to have it done, how many extra to have on hand (how much do they cost?, how hard are they to sharpen? etc.).  I have a chainsaw, but cut infrequently enough that I have 2 chains and take the spare to be sharpened by a professional for $6 a couple times a year.

I've got a 30 hp 4x4 kubota with front end loader (the reason I joined TBN in the first place) that we used to skid out the maple and pine logs.

I've got a woodburner in my shop, and know many people that heat with wood, so getting rid of the scrap shouldn't be a problem.  I've got a chicken coop with a sawdust floor, a compost pile, and an obnoxiously large garden, so using sawdust isn't a problem.

Thanks for the replies so far.  The three of us are getting excited about checking out this mill.

[Tom]

If this is a big bandmill, you have a "Deal" indeed.

Don't worry about the bands yet.  Get the sharpener if offered.

If you are in Indiana, make plans to visit Wood Mizer, the largest sawmill manufacturer in the USA.  They are in Indianapolis.  You will be treated as an honored guest whether you buy a new mill or want information about a used one.  I guarantee it.

Something else I can almost guarantee is that you will become a sawyer.  It's habit forming and an addiction.  This usually leads to your becoming some kind of woodworker, whether it be picnic tables, furniture or just a knowledge base on local woods.

You can get Wood Mizer blades sharpened at Wood Mizer for a fee.  Many do this.  Look up their Resharp service.

A day of sawing will have you going through, probably, 2 or 3 blades a day.  Most of us buy them in quantities of 10 or 15 to the box and order 1 or two boxes at the time.  Using the resharp service will mean that you need at least 2 boxes.

Your tractor is a real workhorse and will do fine around the mill.  The 3 point hitch is available for most of the work but a Front end loader is mighty handy too, though not necessary.

Your probably talking about more firewood than you will burn in your shop, but that 's a good start.  The really cool thing is that all of the output of the sawmill can either be used or sold.  You just have to be a little creative sometimes.

Start delving into the forum and Read, Read, Read. 

Click on that little Globe icon on the left, under my profile picture and it will take you to my website. You might enjoy that too.

[Sprucegum]

Please read a few (at least) of the threads on woodlot management, forest regeneration, etc.

Your 30 acres of forest can give you several lifetimes of pleasure if you treat it right  8)

[ARKANSAWYER]

DO NOT GO LOOK AT THAT MILL!  It will cause you trouble.  Next thing you know you will be in a 12 step program for addiction.  Soon you will be breaking Commandments like coveting, lusting and theft will cross your mind.  Hoarding will become a problem.  And I have news for you,  If you have felled a tree then you are into wood working.  Mostly the working part.
  Welcome to the club and we like photos.

[dooleysm]

Most of the 30 acres belongs to my dad.  Neither of us knows much about felling trees.  We each know just enough to know it's dangerous if you don't know what you're doing.  We're only interested in using logs from downed trees, of which there are more than enough to keep us busy.  We're much more interested in using the woods for deer and rabbit hunting than for logging.  The woods has been logged in the not too distant past, before we owned it, and we are in the process of reclaiming some of the logging roads for hiking and hunting use.  They were handy in dragging out the pine and maple we found too.  We've got 10 maple logs, all about 8.5-10' long.  The big pine log we've got is 16.5' long and maybe 12" in diameter.  The top of that tree is about 50' long, which we drug out in one piece.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, any cutting we do at our place is going to be minimal.  The bulk of the cutting will be at my cousin's place, with logs he salvages from his work.  Thanks to the winds we got from Ike, he's got several years worth of work.

Very interesting stuff on your site Tom, great reading.

I have a pretty full plate, with 2 boys (the oldest is just under 3, the youngest is just over 1) and another on the way.  I've also got 5 beagles that are always wanting to go run rabbits, and the huge garden that takes up a good bit of time in the spring and summer.  And this pesky full time job that is ALWAYS in my way.  So I HOPE to keep this as a part time hobby.

shawn

[Tom]

The most important thing in a man's life is his family and the most valuable thing you can offer is your time.  What a great way to raise kids.  Whether they live the life or just visit it, a farm, whether it be corn, cows or trees is fodder for a lifetime of memories.  At 3, your eldest is just a short way from being interested in the mill, trees, lumber and all things that can happen on 30 acres.  Keep him/them safe and allow them to explore.  They will be more help than you can ever hire even if you are the one that does all of the work.  One time young and forever grown, don't you nor they miss it.  Take notes, take pictures, take the time. Oh but that I could do it again. 

[Ianab]

One thing about this place - you will hardly ever be advised NOT to buy a sawmill.

You might be WARNED about buying one, but thats different.  :D

Sounds like you have have thought things through, you have a source of logs, some basic machinery, someplace to saw and uses for the boards.

If the mill is diesel and hydralic then it will be something heavy duty, and as long as it's in OK condition then it sounds like a good deal. Dont sweat the small bits like guides and bearings, they are normal wear parts and easy to replace. Main things is that the mill bed is true and the engine healthy, the expensive bits. Little things can be fixed.

Having 'almost free' wood is great, especially for when you have family around. Fences, play forts, kids furniture, real wooden pirate chests. All good stuff 

Ian

[Slabs]

Arky's just jealous - LIKE ME!!!

[dooleysm]

One thing about this place - you will hardly ever be advised NOT to buy a sawmill.

You might be WARNED about buying one, but thats different.  :D
Ian

This place is EXACTLY like TBN.  I've never seen anyone there advised NOT to buy a tractor either.

I'm getting more excited about this!

[DanG]

Welcome aboard, Dooley!  This is gonna be fun! 8) 8)

I gotta say, you are one precosious eleven year-old! :D :D

[dooleysm]

hmmm, born in 1977, not 1997.  oops

[Faron]

Hey neighbor!  I bet there will be a mill in Dubois soon.  Sent you a PM.

[thecfarm]

Sounds like you have a lot of fun ahead for you. A Lot of questions too.  ;D  But we are here for you.You mentioned your cousins saving logs from his job a few times.Are these yard trees?Just asking because you might want to invest in a metal detector too.Keep us posted on your progress.

[dooleysm]

I would think they are mostly yard trees, especially now with all the cleanup from the wind damage.  Though maybe he's not getting lots of good logs now.  He does alot of different things though, so I'm not sure exactly how he comes into these logs.  He calls his company 'M&R Backhoe', but in general he has lots of big toys and uses them for just about anything you can imagine.  It's fairly easy to talk him into getting more, bigger, and different toys, which is a big part of why we're thinking about doing this little sawmill adventure.  The nice thing is, he's a trained diesel mechanic and has the tools to fix about anything.

I feel like a kid waiting for Santa to show up, which is more than appropriate, given the season!

[Todd]

RUN!!! Do not read anymore about having a sawmill, don't think about it, don't even consider it!  This place made me drool for 3 years before I finally got a mill, and then it was 2 years before I could look at a tree without considering how I'd saw it up.  I find myself cutting potatos for fries and wondering if I should flatsaw, quarter, or just work it around. (I always start with the removal of the worst face ;D)

Dooleysm, welcome!  You're gonna like it here.

[WDH]

The sawmill will be a necessary tool to manage a small woodlot like 30 acres. 

Somewhere I read that there is a rule that if you have 30 acres, you are required by law to own and operate a sawmill ;D ;D.  So, it is beyond your mortal control.  Just do it :D.

[Papa1stuff]

Hey I only have 10 acres and I have two sawmills ;D
having a ball milling anything I can get my hands on!  smiley_bouncing_pinky smiley_clapping!

[scrout]

Welcome Dooleysm,

I like the part where you say you wont be doing much milling at your place.
Haha!  If this mill has wheels.......
Anything that has hydraulics for $3500 is a steal, even with a torched motor.
I will assume an 18x18 goat shed will soon be a 40x60 sawshed.
I built a Linn Lumber based bandmill and got it going in August.  Still needs some more work, but have been sawing instead of finishing, funny how that works.
I have about $3500 into building my manual mill, although now I have an electric lift motor and the obligatory HF winch powered carriage.  Add one Terramite T6  8)  for some log handling and other things and $3500 was just the start.
Log handling is a HUGE deal. 
Just keep saying "hobby" over and over to yourself.....

[Faron]

I had the pleasure of a visit from Dooleysm and his buddy yesterday.  I enjoyed it very much, though we didn't get to talk much.  They wanted to kind of get the general idea of what saw milling with a band mill was like, so we worked through most of the visit.  We were quartersawing some real nice cherry. I did give them my ideas on the importance of a debarker and I think they noticed the advantages of the hydraulics. I think I heard that a visit to Woodmizer was in the making. I wonder if their wives know what is brewing. ;)  Dooleysm, I enjoyed the visit, and good luck whatever way you guys decide to go.

[dooleysm]

John and I really learned alot from our visit, thanks for letting us snoop around and for the pointers you gave us.  The used sawmill we looked at on Friday turned out to be a Kasco Saw II B, which was in worse shape than we had been led to believe and was not NEARLY as nice as Faron's Wood-Mizer.  After watching those hydraulics in action I don't see how we could be happy without them.

John works for a GM offshoot and lives in Indy, so he's got all next week off.  I'm pretty sure he's gonna go try to talk to the Wood-Mizer folks.

Thanks again, it was a treat to watch your operation in action.

[clouserfarm]

Welcome.

We have been in the awmill business for a long time and we even manufacture some custom mills. check us out at  ww.sawmills-band.com  and find some good info and some links to helpful sites.

do not forget  wood gets into your blood and some times blood gets into your wood!!
Good Luck