Does it pay to mill your own timbers?

[andybuildz]

whatever you do dont google donkey website. ;D

Why not? You know I already did the minute I thought about it : ) http://www.lovelongears.com/

[Thomas-in-Kentucky]

No, it does not pay. 

first example:
My mill has sat nearly dormant (but still depreciating) as I spend all my time on the other 80% of the house that has nothing to do with timber framing.  (e.g. I can save more money doing my own plumbing than I can make by running the mill)  I probably could have used that saw-mill capital more wisely.  Of course I love my mill, and I have dreams for when the house is finished, and I did saw a couple of barns and trailer decks and deer cabins and several cross ties and some fence boards before starting on the house, but whew, what a crappy way to make money by spending money.

second example:
A really nice mill (hydraulic/set-works/new) and a really nice backhoe (say 2500 legit hours) are the same money ($30K vs. $30K).  A good mill (or barely-get-by mill) and a barely-get-by backhoe (or old tractor) are also the same money ($15K/$5K vs. $15K/$5K).  I have found the backhoe to be much more helpful for my house project.  People are willing to pay $35 to $50/hr for me to use the backhoe for them - and I've never seen anyone claim that kind of $ (not even woodmizer inc.!) can be made with a portable sawmill.  Finally, something like a backhoe/loader/skidsteer is a prerequisite to moving around logs and timbers.  A backhoe will also dig your foundation, lift you in the air, move timbers/sips/pallets/CMUs, unload semi's, dig your waterline, dig your well, carry your firewood, snake your logs (on flat ground), move your propane tank, set your fence posts, dig out stone, fix your road, backfill your foundation, dig a pond, yank a motor, dig out stumps, dig holes to plant trees, carry wet concrete, etc. etc.

So, I guess what I'm saying is if you can scrape up the capital for a sawmill, spend it on a backhoe (or similar equipment), and hire the sawing done for you.  (yes, I am leaving out that if I were being rational and listening to my own advice, I would have sold the saw mill by now, but I just can't bring myself to do that!  The magic of it still has not worn off.)

[andybuildz]

Thanks for the advice Thomas. Makes a lot of sense when money is tight. Definitely some food for thought....and I'll for sure think hard about that.

BTW...I'd been following your blog almost weekly for several years. I discovered it when I was looking into building a Rumsford oven/fireplace as I was doing this house that is now up for sale.
Ain't too many people I'm jealous of but you're on the very top of my list. You done real good my friend...really good!

Far as a backhoe goes....I can TOTALLY understand what you're saying. Even on just two acres here in the burbs...I started mowing about half the two acres with some little crappy ride on b/c I didn't wanna spend 2-3 thou on a good mower.

Well...I finally broke down and spent about $2500 on one with the grass/leaf catcher bags..and oh yeh...a nice sturdy metal wagon from Lowes for only another eighty bucks. The amount of time and money I saved is beyond words doing all kinds of tasks besides my dopey lawn. Used to take me a good 4 days to do the leaves about this time of year. What a nightmare. With the ride-on...I do the entire property of leaves in TWO HOURS!...and easily. Sooooooo....what you're saying is something I did have in the back of my mind.

Probably makes sense to keep my eyes open for a used Norwood or something about the same price and quality...Ya never know the deals you can find out there.

Keep up the good work brother!
Andy

[Raphael]

  My answer to the sawmill price dilemma was the Logosol M7 (a 16' highly versatile chainsaw mill) and I've since added another 9' extension to it in the form of a Logsol WWM.  I needed a good chainsaw at the time so getting my 066 with a mill and extended warrantee was major bonus.  My initial thinking was that when it comes to timbers kerf loss is zero and I figured you're either hydraulic or you're going to spend a good % of your time turning the cant anyway so the difference in speed vs. a cheaper bandmill isn't very significant.

Because of it's speed (or lack there of) and great versatility I tend to think of the Logosol as a specialty lumber, timber producing and timber framing tool rather than a sawmill.

I've invested $3500 in two sawmills (that don't really depreciate), another $2000 in chainsaws (066 & MS660) and probably another $1000 in fuel, oil, chains, peaveys and cant hooks, etc.
In return I've produced a dozen or so timbers and resawn many others, including ripping 5 sided peak purlins, 3 sided fillers and tapered rafters.   I've also produced >4500 sqr.ft of 1/2" siding, ~2500bf of 3/4" to 6/4" random width hardwoods, and another ~1500bf of misc. 1x and 2x softwoods (attic flooring, wall studs, scaffold planking).

So I really don't worry about the sawmills and one chainsaw sitting idle while I finish my house.  :D

[Carpenter]

I'm not sure that it does pay to mill your own timbers.  I am in the same boat and have not came to any conclusion.  However I did buy a mill.  I set out to build a shop, (which I hope will lead to other timber frame projects) out of local materials.  In my area there is only one full time sawer that I know of and he was limited in length to 16'  His prices were very good but I needed a few 28' tie beams for this shop and foresee a need for 32' beams.  Remember that the strongest splice is always no splice at all.  I was able to mill long beams with my chainsaw and a heydon lumbermaker just fine but along the way I happened upon an old circle mill for sale.  I bought the mill for a lot less than I would have spent on lumber just to frame this one project, (and I do have other timber frame projects on the horizon) plus this way I can custom cut the sheathing and use full dimension lumber out of some of the local trees that I can get for free.  I thought it was well worth the investment, and it has been fun restoring the old mill as well, I haven't got it running yet.  If I count the hours that I have put into restoring this old mill and the labor that I'll have into milling the lumber from a business perspective I've got a bad feeling that it won't pay to do this one project.  But, if I break even on money spent + time to get the lumber as opposed to buy the rough cut product from the local sawyer at the end of the project I still have the mill as a physical asset. 

As others have said it probably is not worth buying a mill for just one project.  On the other hand I think I will find it very rewarding to mill timbers from my own trees and then build something from them.  That is a very difficult question to answer.  

[ljmathias]

I keep coming back to the old equation "value = performance/cost" where you value the value according to your own ideas of how much money and time "cost" you and what you need for performance in terms of reliability of the product, dimensions, reproducible thickness and width, and cosmetics or looks...  If you use only money, then no, you won't save any money on buying a mill of any kind for just one job, but then, once you have it, you'll almost certainly find a "need" to do more jobs with it, for yourself and for others.  I love helping neighbors convert their trees into lumber they'll air dry and then make something unique out of, and "payback" can vary in "value" and time frame, but hey, who's counting?

In the long run, I used one major factor to decide (when I bought my LT40 hydraulic): was it something that would keep me learning, keep me trying new things, and just maybe help me do some of the things I'd like to before I (heaven forbid!) leave this planet for good?  Once you get to a certain age, and you've done most of the selfish things you wanted so bad when you were young, doing exactly what you want to do (ok, selfish again) AND helping others at the same time (not so selfish), then why not?  I don't have much "free" money but what I do have I try to use wisely (for me) and a sawmill was the best investment I could have made at the time- lots of good rough cut furniture, air dried lumber and siding for the house I'm building now.  I love it!  Oh, and as has been said over and over in this forum: once bitten, twice shy!  (wrong!  twice, bitten again and again...).  Why just yesterday, after reading comments on the forum, I just had to go out and cut up some trees to make some sawdust to satisfy my addiction for another day or two.  Didn't really need the lumber for anything, but when I sliced into a 8" down to butt swell of about 12" stump 8' long that had been just standing in the bottom land (upright but dead as a doornail for several years), I wasn't sure what to expect.  Wow! Some beautiful spalted white oak with plenty of structural strength left (for furniture uses) and great texture and coloring.  Problem is, now that I see that small stack of 4/4 lumber just waiting to become something, I had to fight all day not to oblige it and work on siding instead.  Bummer!

Ok, then: don't buy a mill if you don't want to (need to) do neat stuff with wood; buy one only if you have no other option than to devote a good share of the rest of your life into using one of the most environmentally friendly renewable resources in new and interesting ways.  I love this stuff!  What else is there to say?  That's the "performance" part for me, like in the credit card adds: priceless, which then means that no matter what the actual "cost," the overall value is infinite...

Lj

[Jim_Rogers]

the overall value is infinite...

Well said, all of it......

[JPM]

andybuildz; as others have said, a mill just for a tf house and you have to buy logs doesn't pay. But if you like working w/ wood
and want to see your bs  level get a mill and set it up in the drive on l.i. 2 or 3 logs in to it you will be amazed at the bs, that's if your on good terms w/ the people around you, if not watch out!! . either  way it will help you move real quik

[Qweaver]

My neighbors in Texas City have suffered greatly at the hands of inspectors in reparing damage from IKE.  I got my repairs done early when the inspectors were so overwhelmed by storm damage that they just let everyone get back to a livable condition without hassle.
I would not have even attempted to build our cabin in WV if I had to deal with inspectors.  I even had a bad experience with our county health inspector when it turned out he did not know the code.  It turned out OK after I asked for a variance and he looked up the rules and found that he was wrong.  Is it any wonder that we distrust them.

I can't imagine trying to build our house without a sawmill and tractor with FEL and Backhoe.  I would have been forced to use normal stick construction at a much greater cost.  I paid $4500 for my used LT15 in excellent condition and bed extensions to cut up to 18'.  It's not just the house that used large amounts of lumber...there's also a sawshed, 24x32 storage shed, camper shed, 14 x 24 garage.  There is not much to be gained if you are just cutting 2x4s but everything else saves you money fast.  Theres also the convience of being able to go down to the saw shed and cut just what you need at a moments notice.  I'll never regret buying my saw and tractor.

[ljmathias]

Qweaver is right on about cutting what you need when you need it.  One of the blessing of Katrina for me was the chance to peel a whack of pine logs and stack them in my pole barn (on cinder blocks with treated 4x4's on top of those).  They've been air drying for a couple years now and are perfect to cut up into virtually no-shrink lumber and siding.  The real beauty of it is that it eliminates my previous "inventory" of 2X4's, 2X6's and larger lumber and beams- I'd dead stack lumber from Lowes but it was often outside and even with tin on top, water would get in, fungus would grow- mess everything up.  Whole lot cleaner and neater to store the lumber in the log and cut when I need it- "just in time" inventory is what they call it in car manufacturing.

For example, cut up 3 or 4 logs into live edge siding, and started working on the third side of the house; still got a couple boards to put up on the second side but it looks great almost done, and I need some help to hold the high ones while I screw them tight.  What I cut was enough for about 1/3 to 1/2 of the third side, but I'll buck the logs to the right length for the various sections (between windows, and between windows/doors and corner trim) so that I don't have to try holding a 20' 1X8 on the chop saw stand...  That's the other good part: where I have a long run, I just pick a 20' log and make siding pieces with fewer joints exposed to the weather.  But I don't have to cut more than I need- not much use for boards that long for other parts of the house.

Sure beats the daily trips to the big box stores; can't seem to get out of those places without spending at least a hundred to two hundred bucks (when I'm working on a house- I don't plan to well; kind of like General Custer in the second "Night in the Museum" with Ben Stiller (yes, I have grandkids but it's a great movie, very funny) when he's charging along with Stiller and says, "We're Americans.  We don't plan, we just DO!")

Sorry to ramble- long day and it's making me drowsy sitting if front of the fireplace after a real snow fall (well, a dusting anyway), with a full belly, having played with most of the grandkids at one time or another today... life is good!

Lj