What's the right blade for dead standing Red Oak?

[barbender]

I've got a few cords of Red Oak that was dead standing I started trying to saw the other day. Saw was cutting fine in white birch and some maple I had lying around that was pretty dry. I put an oak log on and the blade dives- a lot! Any suggestions? I was running a Red Streak 1 1/4", 3/4 pitch, 10 degree blades. I'd like to salvage this stuff instead of just using it for firewood.

[Bibbyman]

I'd try any or all of these things.

Blade with 4° or 7° blade hook angle.

Thicker blade - .055 works better in hard stuff.

Wider blade.  - 1-1/2" if you can get it and use it.

If that don't work, check your main drive belt tension.  A little bit of slipping slows down the blade speed and a little makes a lot of difference.

Also check your guides to make sure they're aligned and performing well.

P.S. 

I just checked your photo album and if that's the mill you're using, it looks like it's limited on power.  The thicker and wider blades may not work well.  Even with our 25hp electric motor, we can tell the difference going from .045 to .055 blade thickness.

[ladylake]

I'd go right to a 4* hook on dried oak.   Steve

[barbender]

 That's what I was wondering about- a shallower hook angle. Bibby, you're right. I don't think my little homebrew will do an .055 x 1 1/2! I'll check that belt tension to. This mill is pretty imprecise, alignment of the blade guides is a bit difficult (Shims, etc) But, for what it's worth, it saws true until I throw that big oak on it. When it saws good, I think "This is alright for the $1500 I have invested in it." When it's having an off day, I think about cutting it into scrap and picking up a new woodmizer!! I'll try your suggestions and see what happens.

[ladylake]

You'll have trouble cutting dried out oak with best mill out there with a 10* blade.   Steve

[sigidi]

Best blade for your dead red oak........




I find this one will do a terrific job 8) ;D 8) 8) :D ;)

[Papa1stuff]

I just got 4* blades and they are the only one that will cut our Live Oak with out a wavy cut.

[barbender]

Sigidi- I don't doubt a swinger would do well in this stuff, but I have seen a swingmill get VERY squirrely in some of the knotty white spruce we have up here. The poor operator was feeling pretty embarrassed, he was doing a demo for a bunch of friends and the saw wouldn't behave in that stuff. The wood is very soft except for the knots, which are real hard with a lot of swirly grain around them. Well, I am going to have to order a few 4° blades, I'll see if the local sawshop has any. What can I expect with the 4°, a slower feed rate? I only have a 13 hp, will it handle it? I don't care if the feed is slow, so long as it cuts straight. Thanks for all the input everyone. It's great to be able to come on here and get info from around the world, isn't it?

[Kelvin]

I've got a lower HP mill and have found you have to be even more precise in the blade guide alignment.  I've sawn dry red oak, and don't think you should have that much trouble.  Have you made some tool that clips or sits on the blade and aligns the blade body to the log bed?  This is most critical as pushing the blade into the cut on an angle starts trouble.  I'd make sure about that before getting different blades.  Also 9 degree blades are a big step towards sawing harder wood.  It has a different gullet design as well as less hook.
KP

[ladylake]

It might feed a little slower, I really can't tell on my 28hp diesel. Don't lug the engine too much and as Bibby mentioned make sure the drive belt isn't slipping.   Steve

[barbender]

I'm going to check that alignment, and make sure the belt isn't slipping. I've had problems with the belt slipping before, you don't even realize it because it doesn't squeal or anything. The problem there is it is a single belt drive, it should probably have two. It's a fine line between slippage and over tension. I might even throw that log back on there and try it again today after tightening the belt, that's the easiest place to start. My mill is the Simplesaw design, a friend started building it and I picked it up halfway through. Really, I think it is not a very well thought out design. As far as spinning a blade, it works, but there I don't think much thought went into laying it out to add guarding, fine adjustments, etc. I added guards on the drive belt, band wheels just to feel safe around it. I popped a band off once dragging back before I added the front guard, it hit the ground spinning and proceeded to spin about 100' out into the woods before it hit a log and spun in place before falling over

[Bibbyman]

 



One thing you may try is barrel sawing.  That is, instead of turning your log 90° to a new face, only turn 45° until you get it down to manageable size.  This way you can avoid real wide cuts.  

Your boards will come out with 45° edges but you can re-edge them easy enough.

[barbender]

That's a good idea, Bibby- the wide cuts are tough on this thing.

[ljmathias]

I am just now cutting some long-dead white and red oak and while the wood is beautiful, the cutting is real slow.  I use water plus pinesol plus dish soap and that helps some but I just can't push through this stuff even with a new blade.  Guess it's worth the slowness for the quality of the wood- I expect very little movement since it's already pretty dry.  Having said that, though, I cut one banana log that moved a lot but used the process described here of whittling it down (tips and bow out first, then square up and cut) and that worked pretty well.

Lj

[Magicman]

Lj,  I think that we both need some 4° blades for sawing seasoned oak...... ;D

[barbender]

I thought I would update this thread- Since my last post I ordered some Woodmizer blades from a local saw shop, they are just the cheaper Silvertip blades, 10° 7/8 pitch, 1 1/4" (10° was all they had) Well, these blades are nice and sharp right out of the box, they have ground teeth rather than the broached teeth the Simonds blades have. I am pleased to say they are sawing nice and straight on that old oak, and on some half dry tamarack I have laying out there too. I'm very pleased with these blades, and they were cheaper than the Simonds. The Red Streaks would not cut the stuff, they are not nearly as sharp as these WM blades.

[carykong]

What kind of cutting lube are you dripping on your blade?

[barbender]

diesel/bar lube mix

[woodmills1]

my LT 40 would cut oak like mad10 degree .045 woodmizer blades, though it would wiggle in hickory and spruce.  the LT 70 with .055 7 degree eats hickory and spruce like butter

[paul case]

around here standing dead red oak gets cut with the bite of big black carpenter ants. most will have holes all through them or be like swiss cheese inside. most arent worth cutting except for firewood.  pc

[beenthere]

pc
Those carpenter ants are only found in wood that is wet and decayed already. So just use them for a good barometer/indicator of "rotten" wood.  ;D

[paul case]

wel then either those big black ants i am seeing arent carpenter ants or they have different eating habits in oklahoma than in wisconsin?pc

[barbender]

I haven't seen ant ants in the oak except for a couple that were hollow. The wood (even the heart) does have borer holes in it though. Too small to be ants, and it only adds to the rustic look I am going for. The wood is good and solid.