States attempting to impose bans on OWB

[spacedog]

I read the last couple of posts in "E2300 summer use" and the topic turned to NYS attempting to ban or regulate a burning season. I live in CT. where the state legislature attempted a similar proposal.  Fortunately the proposal died in committee but it was not without a fight. 

One of our dealers took the lead and fought back bringing in people to testify at the Capital.  I have no doubt that the tree huggers will try again and this will be an annual fight. 

I have heard that in this case the "tree huggers" turned out to be the American Lung Association pushing for the ban.  While I have nothing against the Lung Association I don't agree with their position.  If they had won I would be replacing the wood smoke from my E-2300 with smoke from my oil burner, burning imported fossil fuel.  One way or another some polution is being generated from the heating of my house.

Since the CT proposal seems earily similar to that of NYS I would not be surprised if it was being pushed from the same source.  Some of you NYS readers should do a little research on this issue.   Perhaps now is the time the forum readers to start organizing to fight against what is sure to be more attempts to limit or outright ban OWBs. 

Sorry for being so long winded, I'll get off my soap box so someone else can have a turn.

[Dan_Shade]

i'm gonna speak out on this one.

an OWB is not for everybody, in every location.  My dad has one and it smokes horrendously.  In fact, I've never seen one that doesn't smoke horrendously.  They are inefficient monstrosities.

if you live on open land, away from your neighbors, more power to you, but I'd be pretty torqued if one of my neighbors in my 1-3 acre/house community installed one and ran it in the winter, let alone the summer.

I burn wood in a high efficiency fireplace, and I rarely have anything but a vapor leaving my chimney.  If the OWB's would get to this level of particulate emissions, maybe I'd change my mind.

[HOOF-ER]

If people would burn dry wood there would not be much of a problem. Some guys burn anything That is a problem.

[spacedog]

Dan,

You have some valid points.  OWBs certainly are not for everyone and certainly are location specific.  Before installing mine I monitored the prevailing winds a chose a location so that the smoke generated is blown away from my neighbors 90% of the time.   I do have neighbors who I speak with regularly within 250' and have not had a single complaint. 

That said the newer models have come a long way from the older ones.   I have a friend who burns would in a wood stove who asks me everytime he is over whether or not my boiler is running because he has never seen it smoke. 

Yes my boiler can and does smoke under certain conditions.  So do the chimney's of all three of my neighbors who have wood stoves and they smoke as much if not more then mine.

Every state in New England has regulations on these boilers, but rather then enforce the existing regs they go for an outright ban.   I do see that OWBs get a bad reputation due to the actions of a minority of owners. 

If a particular OWB owner uses bad practices while burning and creates a nuisance they should be and at least in CT. can be shut down under existing statutes.

[thecfarm]

You can argue the same topic about logging to certain people too,it should be banned.  : I have a OWB.I'm clearing an old pasture.I've put ALOT of wood through the OWB that would of gone into the burn pile.No matter what,at my place,it's going up in smoke. Be it getting some good from it through the OWB to heat my home,or into the burn pile to burn and smoke for 2-3 days.I have reasons that I cannot burn wood in my house.I would have to burn oil.Some people are just like my FIL when I got mine.He could only holler they smoke they smoke.He saw one once smoking,has no idea when or where,or what kind,but knows they all smoke.  : I've seen my old cook stove smoke as bad as my OWB,but that's OK since that is a wood stove.Driving down the rode I've seen smoke pouring out of inside wood stoves.If that was a OWB the neighbors would have a fit. My will smoke alot when I burn junk wet wood in it.Been that route one winter. But dry wood it does much better.

[stonebroke]

NYS DEC  says that maine vermont and mass.  have already enacted the same regulations . It is some sort of northeast air quality group.

Stonebroke

[ken999]

I read an aticle in a local paper the day after I found out about the proposal. There were some qoutes in there from a spokesman from the American Lung Association.

I've got no problem with 'them' clamping down on some of these people who smoke the hell out of their neighbors. Everyone has a right to breath clean air.

I think the proposal is a little vague and there seems to be some grandfathering lacking when it comes to the set-back proposals. I know I've got alot of time, sweat and money wrapped up in my piping, underdrain and concrete pad. I'd be pizzed of they told me I could no longer use it even though I was not violating any set-backs when I installed it.

[stonebroke]

In NYS there would be no setbacks but you would only have ten years from the date of installation to use the owb,DEC says that is the life of a OWB based on how long the companies warrant them.

Stonebroke

[ken999]

I think you had better read the proposal again. They are quite clear on 100' property set-backs.

http://www.altheating.com/Part247ProposedRule.pdf

[stonebroke]

I stand corrected. I just thought that because in another part of it with proposed alternatives they said setbacks were not practical because DEC had no way to enforce them.

Stonebroke

[doctorb]

Dan-

I live in Baltimore County and own an E-2300.  The smoke output from the new gasification stoves is significantly less that the old monstrosities.  I agree with you, the old technology created smoke factories.  You have obviously not seen the new gasification stoves in action.

Here's the honest truth.

1.  When you first start a fire, there's smoke, and plenty of it. 

2.  As the temperature of the coal bed increases, the downdraft technology begins and, with increase air forced into the smoke, gassification occurs.  This stops the smoke because the smoke becomes the fuel.  The purpose of burning the wood is to create the smoke,  which, with all its particulate matter, contains the majority of the energy of the wood.  by burning the smoke, particulate emissions and smoke are minimized and efficiency is maximized.  With good dry wood the gasification can begin within 10 minutes of firing up the unit.

3.  Once the fire is hot, the stove cycles on and off dependent upon the heat requirements.  When the cycle kicks on again, there is a minute of light smoke until the gasification process is at full throttle.  the smoke then disappears.  All this is as true as I am sitting here.  I am not selling you anything!

4.  If the stove is not working properly due to air flow blockages or other known problems, it will smoke just like the old designs because gasification is not ocurring.  So attention to detail and daily maintenance are key.

My neighbor, whose house is about 125 yards away, had no idea that I had purchased, installed and used the wood furnace for heating my house this winter.  If we had not joined forces to dig out from the snowstorms in February, he still would not know.

Since we both live in Maryland, you are more than welcome to visit my house this winter.  Please reply so that we can arrange it.  I am confident that, when you see my water temperature at 185-195 degrees and only heat waves exiting the chimney, you will be convinced.  Leave some open room in your thoughts for that possibility.  The techniology is better and cleaner.  I just proved it to myself for the past the 5 straight months.  I am not burning for "summer" use so your visit will have to wait until November.

Looking forward to seeing the surprised look on your face

Doctorb

[Dan_Shade]

I'd like to see that.  It sounds like the technology that should be going out there in these outdoor stoves.

I have been absolutely amazed at the performance of my high efficiency fireplace, and I'm glad to see that some of the OWB are heading that direction too.

I'm about 2 hours south of you, I'll let you know sometime when I'm heading up that way.

[doctorb]

Dan-

Great.  You can get my email off of my profile.  Look forward to meeting you.

doctorb

[superwd6]

Dan , you've got to see this gasification. I've been a furnace guy for over twenty years now and used to hate the outdoor boilers as well. I talked to my closest nieghbor before installing mine. He's never had a problem with it and the second guy down didn't know I had one. I live in a treed valley- smoke was NOT  an option for me at all. ;D

[Bill]

. . .

I have heard that in this case the "tree huggers" turned out to be the American Lung Association pushing for the ban.  While I have nothing against the Lung Association I don't agree with their position.  If they had won I would be replacing the wood smoke from my E-2300 with smoke from my oil burner, burning imported fossil fuel.  One way or another some polution is being generated from the heating of my house.

. . .

I think enough smoke would annoy anyone - but with all the talk about reducing the use of ( foreign ) oil/gas - one would think that someone that can sustain a non smoking OWB using wood coming off their own land would get an incentive - not be penalized .

Burning dry wood with enough air seems to do fine from what I can tell.

my $ 0.02