Calling all business people!!!!

[farmhand]

   I had a post earlier about making a living with a swing mill.

That post raised the question about anyone milling.

Are you making money with your mill?  If so, how?  

Milling you own logs and selling the boards?
                   or
Milling some one elses log and charging?
                   or
Milling for specialty products?
                    or
Whatever?

Hope all will reply. ;D

Thanks

Farmhand

[Frank_Pender]

Yes, on all of your questions. 8)

[farmhand]

 :-/       :-/

Frank,

I was hoping for a little, . . . . . . no a lot more input. :   :'(


Thanks for replying though.

Farmhand

[oakiemac]

Farmhand,

I'm fairly new at this, having only started this past summer. But I will tell you what I have learned so far.

It is very likely(even probable) that you will make money with a portable mill, but it is closely tied with how big your payments (if any) are. I bought a used mill, used truck, used log loader, ect. So my "payments" are low. Also you need to consider how much competition is in your area. Are there alot of other saw mills in the area? In my area there is a permanent mill that most farmers were taking their logs to, but they like the idea of a portable mill so that they don't have to move the logs. There is also a few portable mills around but they haven't set themselves up as a buisness and don't advertise-therefore no one knows about them. I drive by and can see several Woodmizers in barns but when I talk to my customers they say that they have looked and looked for a portable mill but couldn't find one until they saw my ad's.

Right now about 50% of my buisness is obtaining logs, milling then selling the lumber. The other 50% is taking the mill to customers property and cutting their logs. I have found that it is usually more profitable to sell lumber, but also is a lot more work. This might all change later as the buisness grows. I also only do this part time since I have a full time job else where.

The future holds a kiln (maybe two) and a planning mill.

Good luck in your endevour. Start small and see what works for you. Take a long look at the different mills out there before you decide on anything. Don't be afraid to ask questions, I certainly ask my share.

[Fla._Deadheader]

  Farmhand. Welcome.  We do sunken log recovery in Fl. I think it is a well overlooked supply of the best quality logs that ever grew.

  Since starting this, last year, we have gotten a very grand history lesson. You might check with your local library (or ask the Mrs. to help) and see if there were logs floated to mills in your area.

  If there were, you can be sure there are valuable logs on the bottom. Getting them out will take some ingenuity, but, the price of Hardwood logs is MUCH higher than what we are salvaging.  Custom Furniture  shops and Custom Cabinet shops will take all you can produce.

  Do a Google search and see for yourself.  Good Luck

[ScottAR]

Farmhand, I've only been here a short time and have no mill or any official business at all.  
     I think what Frank is getting at is that one must be flexible to stay afloat.  One month you may have lumber buyers, one month you may have custom sawing contracts, one month you may sell the firewood slabs/rejects, and on and on.  
     Don't limit yourself to any business opportunity.

[RMay]

Farmhand Welcome to the forum  ;D I am a weekend sawer been doing it three years, 90% of my work is portable off site cutting customers logs , my customers word of mouth is my advertising a Happy customer will lead to a new customer 8)

[Minnesota_boy]

I custom saw at the customers site.  My biggest investment is the sawmill.  When it it running, I make money.  When I shut it down to sell lumber, I make less money.  If I'm selling lumber and a prospective customer calls and says he want to buy some boards and will stop by at 3:00 PM, I'd have to take the rest of the day off sawing to wait on that customer.  When the customer hasn't showed up by 4:30, I'm getting steamed.  By 5:30, I'm really mad.  I sit down for supper at 6 and here comes the customer, so I leave my supper on my plate and go out to sell him a stack of 2x4's.  He looks throught the pile, selects 3 and says thanks and leaves.  I go back and sit down to cold supper and very little money.  Why don't I want to sell lumber?

[HORSELOGGER]

I was planing lumber for a flooring order last week, when a guy showed up looking for quarter sawn white oak to repair an antique table leg. My daughter was helping me, so she stopped while I helped the customer. For 45 minutes, no lumber was planed and he left with a 1x4x6' qsawn oak board and 45 dollars worth of junk i was going to throw in the outdoor boiler. 2 days later, he showed up again with an antique shop owner from down by the river who is in the process of building 10 little week end get away rentals, and each one needs 500 sq ft of flooring. They left with a 400 dollar lumber order and debating wether they want pine or oak on the floors. Thats why I like to sell lumber.

[Frank_Pender]

I agree with all of the posting thus far.  Especially the dinner issue.   The wife can tell you that.   The way I operate is that I do not travel with my mill.   All logs to be milled by me are bought to the Tree Farm.  I do a great deal of custome sawing.  I just finished 8,000 bd.ft. of Doug fir for a house 25 miles away.   The logs came off the property for the house.   The average age of the logs was at least 125 years.  Nice sticks of wood.  Some did have same ring and was a loss and a mess to handle inthe sawing process.  However, ZI get to keep all the scrap. ;D  At $230 a thousand not bad.  I hnow have 4 small jobs out in from of me, soft woods and hard woods.  Just had a 100 year old Balck Walnut hauled in yesterday.  Main bowl was 30" on the small end and 20' long.

I dos sell lots of specialty wood and fall down materils, firewood, sawdust and chips.  I have done some flooring and pan on doing some more.  Value added is part of the key.  How much vallue aded you want to do is up to you and the facility that you have to operate.

[Swede]

I get hold of my sawmill for recreation  from my workshop. Some times, mostly in the spring, there isn´t so much work so it´s even a kind of insurance. If there is a lot to saw and I like it better, perhaps I´ll run the sawmill more than working in the workshop.
I payed $5550 for a mill that costs about $18000 as new and it was used 100-200 hours. I get a manual grinder and 5 new blades too.
I move it with the car I had before but had to buy 10 new blades for $28.4/pc. Gave it also new paint, some stuff for the hydraulic and some more I want to have. I think $6700 is cheap for a hobby, an extra income and perhaps a new career.
I had newer sawed a log before I went out for my first job. That´s the way I use to do.  :D :D :D Perhaps I buy some logs or some forest but first I´ll saw some for customers.

There is one problem, some people want to buy "Amerika-Sågen"!   Shall I upgrade my sawmill with loghandling and better measurement in my  workshop or shall I travel across the A.O. to buy a new 4-poster?  :-/  I like the one with a big yellow wheel at the top!

Swede.

[beenthere]

Swede
I'd like to congratulate you on your remarkable use of the English language, and how much improvement you have made in the readability of your posts. Early on, we could 'understand' pretty much all what you were talking about, but now, your words and message just flow right along. I would venture to guess that is because you have been reading a lot of posts and other literature, and adapting to the language quite well (indicates you have a good mind, too).  
Just wanted to let you know, and I enjoy your input to this forum.  

[woodmills1]

Swede, yellow is nice but the word is pronounced

[size=10]ORANGE[/size][/color]

[Swede]

  beenthere;

Thank You!
I´ve been talking English a lot but it´s 25-30 years ago. A guy from Detroit lived in this willage a couple of years and we worked together at the glassfactory. We also spent a lot of free time together. At that time I guided tourists around the factory, sometimes speaking English. My english get better and better in one way. I understood that I´ve had spoken a lot of B.-S:t earlier.  :-[
In another way, I get some bad language from my friend whithout knowing it! :-[ :-[  
I use an English-Swedish dictionary and know it get me  wrong translation sometimes.  I used to say to the american tourists: " I dont know english but some people understad what i want to say. So please, would You explain for they who don´t" :D.

Thank You again, I´m happy You now understand better. F.F. also gives me a good exercise in the language.

Swede.

[Swede]

woodmills1;

I have two sides on my car as on my sawmill  Right and left. Most people use the wheels at both side even if it´s possible to drive a car at two wheels.  When anyone have made a car intended to drive at two wheels and can prove that it´s most sensible  design principle .......Perhaps I´ll buy one even if it´s painted orange.  :D :D :D
I also bet it has to be heavier or/and get a faster damage .

BLUE[/color] is beautiful! And above all a "4-poster"!
If a NEW sawmill is orange, blue or red I dont think is a big deal but it isn´t new for ever.

Swede. *been a maschine designer for 20 years.*

[JoeyLowe]

Welcome Farmhand:

The short answer is to charge more than what you spend!  The long answer is a bit more complicated.  For instance, when you first get started, your focus is on learning how to saw logs.  Before long, you shift focus to how to move the lumber you have sawn or how to get logs, etc.  Then you start focusing on who to sell to.  This way of thinking has been the downfall to many a sawmill operation.  In fact, you can forget making any real money if you intend to stay a one-man operation without auxiliary equipment.  So let's do the math:

If yuo were really capable of sawing 5000 BF a day by yourself and it was all softwood and you charged $.25/BF, then you would gross $1250.00/day.  Not bad, but most if not all sawyers can do this, even if they have a tractor or loader.  Why?  Because you have to obtain the logs, sort the logs, clear the logs, saw the logs, off-bear the lumber, get rid of the debris (slabs), etc.  Oh, and lest we forget, you have to find new customers, handle old customers, and account.  So, in reality, most one-man operations may be able to saw (day-in and day-out) around 2000 BF.  At the same rate, that equates to only $500.00 per day.  Of course when you factor in that a lot of people want you to saw on the shares or will argue your price with you, then you can see that your income will change accordindly.

But not all is doom and gloom.  The secret is called niche marketing.  And in another post I will be glad to show you how I grossed $300k in my first year of business.  Unfortunately, the wife and kids require my attention right now.

[farmhand]

Joey,

I would love to hear you secret!!!!!

I'm sure I'm not the only one too.

Thanks
Farmhand

[DR Buck]

Joey,

I'd settle on knowing half of you secret!   :P

DR Buck

[ARKANSAWYER]

    I too looked for a full time swinger and did not find one in the states.  Having sawed with a swing mill I see how tired they would be and unable to type at the end of a long day. ;D
   I make my poor living from sawing full time and raising a few frames that I saw out.   I have about $70 grand of equipment and saw by my self about 50% of the time.  I sawed close to 300mbdft last year and should bust one million bdft in April with Wanda.   I waste about one day a week chasing logs and the rest of the time sawing.  I traveled 267 miles this week before I was snowed in today.  Went yesterday and earned $160 in 4.5 hours and traveled 35 miles.  On the way home picked up 2 orders and a Lady asked if I wanted a log.  I went by her place and cut it out of a pile and loaded it on the mill.  At home I put Wanda in her shed and sawed out about 250 bdft before my wife called me to supper.  I start most days before daylight and the hoot owls are singing in the forest before I come to supper.  Love every second of it.  Maybe I need Joey's secret as well.
ARKANSAWYER

[Oregon_Sawyer]

I am not full time. But I usually cut over 100,000 bd ft a year.

My first WM mill I had for 5 years.  Paid 18,500 sold it for 16,000.  I did enough jobs to pay all the expenses plus buy a skidder and self loader.  I didn't draw a wage.  But I built a 48x36 shop,  a 12x20 custom cedar cabin and supplied over $100,000 of material for my log home.

Lets see net cost of mill was $500 a year.  All operating cost paid.  Between 20 to 30 thousand a year in material for my own use. Paid for other support equipment.  All this part time, maybe average 4 to 6 days a month.

Loren