tree farmer good and bad

[logman81]

ga jones sounds like it is a smaller version of what I'm looking at. This one is a '76 c4d model with the 4 cyl duetz diesel and 19.9x30 tires. I think they got bigger the newer they got?

[barbender]

Okra, I don't understand how the JD 440 can not have a rear differential, what is it, chain drive? : From what I've read on the forum, I thought 440s had manually locking diffs front and rear, so they were much easier to snake through tight thinnings with the diffs open.

[Okrafarmer]

Okra, I don't understand how the JD 440 can not have a rear differential, what is it, chain drive? : From what I've read on the forum, I thought 440s had manually locking diffs front and rear, so they were much easier to snake through tight thinnings with the diffs open.

I am only going by what the John Deere spec sheets say. I looked at the ones for the 440A and 440D. The rear wheels evidently, are permanently locked together. I will see if I can find the link. . . .

[Okrafarmer]

Here.
http://www.deere.com/en_US/docs/non_current/skidders/440A%20cable%20skidder.pdf

Look down through the specs to where it says "Differentials" and tell me what you see.

[logman81]

Yes it does say solid axle much like a atv. ???

[Okrafarmer]

The moral of the story is, don;'t use a 440 as yard dog, turning on pavement all day.  :-\

[barbender]

I see it says "solid rear axle with no differential action." Interesting. I would think it still has a diff, it is just locked all the time. But, I have been wrong before

[beenthere]

May be you both are talking about the same thing?

All the parts can be viewed on jdparts.com for the different 440 models and combo's.

[Okrafarmer]

I see it says "solid rear axle with no differential action." Interesting. I would think it still has a diff, it is just locked all the time. But, I have been wrong before

If it is a solid rear axle, that means (either literally or in function) one solid piece from side to side, non capable of turning at all separately of each other. That means there is no differential, since a differential, by definition, is a device that allows the two output shafts to turn separately from each other. No doubt there is still the bull gear, as you would find in a standard differential, driven by a driveshaft input gear, and the bull gear is attached solidly to the "solid rear axle." In order for it to be a differential truly, it must have additional pieces, such as sun gears and planetary gears, to allow the two sides to compensate against each other according to the path of least resistance. A locking differential is a standard differential that is capable of having the two sides temporarily locked together as though they were a single unit, and some of them are able to have the locking mechanism controlled by the operator, while others (sometimes called posi-track or limited slip) are automatically engaged. From what I understand. These locking differentials are not intended to be locked most of the time, only when needed when one of the two wheels is slipping and the machine is stuck or in danger of being stuck.

Ok, let's talk about Tree Farmers again. . . .

[barbender]

Sorry Okra, I hope I wasn't coming off as a smart aleck or know it all, thats not my intended tone at all. Well, I am kind of a smart aleck but a good natured goofball type, definitely wouldn't mean to offend anyone. But I do love to tease ;D Now, tonight I was at the North Star Expo logging show, and there was a restored JD 440A there, my wife couldn't figure out why I needed to crawl on the ground under the back of the machine. I had to see the rear axle :D Well, there is definitely something different about it, not a regular differential. Okra your description above clears things up, I guess I meant that there has to be something to transfer the driveshaft power to the axle, but I'm learning that doesn't neccesarily mean it is a differential.
Didn't old autos like model T's have a similar drive system? Ok, moving onnow, I think a C4 would be swell for.firewood

[barbender]

Sorry, posting from an android, I think a C4 would be a great machine for thinning and firewood. I had watched one for several years, nice clean machine with new tires, ford diesel. They finally sold it for $4500 after I bought another machine. Someone got a really good deal.

[Okrafarmer]

I always liked the looks of the green Tree Farmers. I thought they looked smart and intelligently put together. I never had much personal contact with them, though. A look on the internet reveals a whole lot of skidder videos on You-tube but not many informational pages, especially about absorbed brands, such as Tree Farmer.

Barbender, I wasn't taking you as being a smart-aleck, no problem there. I'm sorry if I came across as being snarky. In actual fact, there are many people out there who don't understand what a differential is or what it does, or what the consequences would be of not having one.  ;) To recap, for anyone who might still be confused, a differential is included in a drive axle for an important purpose, and that purpose is to allow the two drive wheels of the axle to turn independently, to allow the machine to turn without the drive axle and drive wheels binding. If a machine with a solid drive axle turns a corner, the inside wheel and outside wheel are fighting against each other, which is very hard on every component in the process, from the axle itself to the tires. Now, this problem is not as severe when the machine is turning on soft ground (and the softer it is, the less of a problem it is). So when operating in the forest, it's not so bad, but if you get out on the pavement or concrete, you're putting a lot of stress on things when you turn.

Ok, back to Tree Farmers again. Like I said, they are nice looking animals. . . .

[barbender]

I used to run a small komatsu grader that was had a, well, it looked like a differential, but it was locked, maybe someone welded the spiders or something. At any rate, if you got on a hard surface you could not turn that thing, the front wheels would just slide. I always figured the axle was going break.

[Okrafarmer]

Yes, and then  you would have earned your user name even more.  :-\ Or maybe it would be axle breaker.

[barbender]

I am kind of known as a good operator that is easy on equipment, but when I screw up and break or bend something, look out cause I tend to have disasters in groups of three No one wants to be around me until I get the other 2 out of my system ;D

[logman81]

I think we have strayed off topic guys? Back to getting info on the c4d tree farmers I do like the looks of it seems well built. Now if I could only get my bone to sell!

[Okrafarmer]

Sorry, that was my fault. Tree Farmers. Anybody know any neat informative websites about Tree Farmers? I have looked at the current Franklin / Tree Farmer home page, but I'm interested to see all the pictures, history, and commentary about them in one place, if there is a website like that. Google wasn't much help. . . . .

[mad murdock]

Adam Garrett has a FB page with a lot of old pictures of the early days of the Tree Farmer, Garrett sold the Tree
farmer line to Can Car in the mid 1960's.

[logman81]

I have checked that out some neat stuff!

[barbender]

So, do the Tree Farmers have open differentials, locking or limited slip? I'm talking the pre- 80's models. I still think you aren't going to find much difference between the Tree Farmers and your Pettibone, they are both component machines. The Tree Farmers are nice simple machines, just like your Pettibone.

[lumberjack48]

All the TF's i ran had limited slip, in a good pull they will all lock up. In mud or deep snow you can duck walk the machine, this is a must in the woods. I knew a guy with a TJ that locked up the rear ends, i'll put it this way it didn't work.
Most have Rockwell or Eaton rear ends

logman a TF, TJ. IH, jd, ect are no better machine then your P-Bone.

[bushmechanic]

Hey mad murdock I looked for that FB page and could you help me find it because I put in adam garrett and there are hundreds of people with that name or is it under something else?I would really like to see those pics.

[lumberjack48]

Heres some

http://dhseagles.kpdsb.on.ca/about/drydenPaperMill/stories/beatty/billBeatty.html

[mad murdock]

From FB search "Garrett Enumclaw Co" should take you to his page.

[ga jones]

mine has lockups front and rear.(locked all the time.). it works fine. I think All the older jacks are full locked. The newer ones have a manual locker.