Starting a new sawmill

[bevy86]

Hi everyone,

This is my first evening on the forum, and I really appreciate the opportunity to bounce ideas off of successful and experienced foresters!

I have very limited knowledge on the operation of a sawmill. I live in Winnipeg Manitoba, where there is predominantly grain, not lumber. However, i am working with a client of mine who is looking to invest about 500k to start a small operation in BC. He has extensive experience in machinery and wood work, but not specifically with mills.

So far, the plan is to operate two or three dimensional mills... from reading the forms i am looking at 128 Hydrostatics.

The areas that I don't understand...

1.) Do these mills need to be inside an enclosure, or can they operate out in the open?
2.) What is the best approach for saw dust?
3.) How many people are required to operate one 128 hydrostatic? I have been led to believe that one mill could produce around 4000 board feet per day. Is this realistic?
4.) How much yard space would this require? I have been targeting between 2 to 3 acres for a lumber yard, and operations.

Any other basic information that i am missing i would really appreciate. We have great strengths in supply and distribution of the product, but are very new to the actual operation. We are working to identify an experienced partner to work with.

Thanks in advance!

[beenthere]

Welcome to the Forestry Forum.

Would you enlighten me on what "128 hydrostatics" is in a sawmill ? 

Model number? Mfg. ?

There are sawmill engineering consulting firms that you may want to enlist for help in your endeavor.

Sounds very interesting, and look forward to hearing more about how it will work out for you.

Seems dimension lumber is hard to market at the moment.

[bevy86]

Hi Beenthere,

http://www.sawmill-exchange.com/Equipment_/Circular_Sawmills/1-2_Man_Circle_Mills/1-2_man_circle_mills.html

The fourth item on this list is the type of saw i have been reading about... This is the description:

"987 Mobile Dimension Model 128, 67 HP Volkswagon gas engine, hydrostatic feed, factory trailer with log loader, 4' endstands, electric motor lift, 10' track extenion to saw up to 26' length, extra log clamps, includes full blade set and extra edger blade and grinder. Can demonstrate."

The site says the saw is designed for 1 or 2 person team, but having never operated one before, i don't really have a grasp of the capacity that a tool like this would have. Does 4000 board feet a day make sense?

What type of mill do you think would seem feasible? I will definitely look into engineering consulting firms as well!

[bevy86]

Sorry, I can't get the link to work, it is on sawmill exchange

[Ron Wenrich]

The way you start in a commercial mill business is to match the material to be sawn with a particular sawmill operation.  You don't necessarily start with a type of mill.  Your production costs may be too high to warrant that type of operation.

First, you have to look at the market you're going after.  You say dimension stock, but what size of contracts are you trying to get in on.  How much are you going to get in the end on a log run basis at a price per Mbf.  Most small operations need to have specific niche markets to justify higher log run market value.  Wood waste value also has to be considered.  Sometimes, that's where the profit is at.

Then you have to look at log supply.  What's the average size of timber, how much of a supply is there, and what's the average cost per Mbf.

With those 2 basic numbers, you then have a basis to judge how much you will need for production costs.  If you can't meet those numbers, your project will fail.  Production costs vary widely by the amount of capital you're willing to put up.  Costs decline as production capacity and efficiency goes up. 

The dimension mills you talk about are only part of the equation.  3 mills producing 12 Mbf per day may be more costly than 1 mill that produces 20 Mbf/day.  There is also the need for supporting equipment and manpower.  Log loaders, trucking, lumber handling and the like also has to be factored in. 

Its hard to say whether those machines are the right ones for the operation.  2 Mbf/manday might not be enough to make a profit.  Other factors to consider is the cost of labor, the cost of energy, and the cost of other overhead like insurance and taxes. 

But, let's start with the first two aspects before you get into equipment selection.

[bevy86]

Thanks Ron!

Alright...

BC government open market auctions have been selling for $78 per cubic meter, and i have been looking at bids for anywhere from 2000 to 10000 cubic meters (m3) for a year contract. Log size appears to be around 30 to 50 feet.

Lets assume an 8000 m3 contract, at $78= $624,000/12months = 52,000 a month in cost. Add in Transportation (which i don't have a good grasp on yet.. i have read .35 pr mbf in the forms as an estimate?), and then shipping overseas, and lets call it $85 per cubic meter.

Thanks to my clients relationship with construction companies in China, they are willing to pay a significant premium to ensure a steady supply they can rely on. They are looking for simple construction grade lumber. Because of these relationships, the opportunity to charge in the range of $115 m3 is available. This is the only reason i believe the operation might be viable.

That leaves approximately $240,000 before machine expenses, lease costs, wages etc. to make a profit.

If i assume wage costs of $100,000 (2 employees? Is this reasonable for the type of output? i haven't researched wages in the region yet) equipment of $100,000 and a lease of $40,000, there are no profits year one.

Year two, i assume equipment cost decreases to around 40,000 in maintenance (this is probably too high, but lets roll with it) leaving some profits.

What parts of this seem illogical? Is there a cost that my rough estimate is completing off on, or a significant expense i am missing? Loaders and lumber handling is something i don't really understand completely either.

I really appreciate you taking the time to talk me through this! From a business venture standpoint it is interesting, but more so i am enjoying the opportunity to learn a bit about an industry i haven't spent any time looking at before.

[Okrafarmer]

One thing to do, if you haven't already, is take a crash-course in accounting. That will help you realize things about the costs and profitability that you may be having trouble with right now.

Secondly, Ron is spot-on with all he said, but one thing especially is, don't base your mill purchase on what you see immediately available. There are many types of sawmills out there, and you have to determine first of all, what the dimensions of the boards are you will be selling, what the dimensions of the logs are that you will sawing, and the amount of production you need to do per day (plus a margin of error). Then look at all the different types of sawmills out there and look for the ones that will meet your specifications. It sounds like a traditional circle-mill or a high-production hydraulic bandsawmill might be better for you than the Mobile Dimension. However, people who actually have a Mobile Dimension can tell you more about it.

Especially if you buy a good used mill, I think you can get your capacity in a single sawmill of the proper type, rather than running three Mobile Dimensions, and all for under $100,000, even in Canada.

Don't forget you will need support equipment such as chainsaws, forklift, banding tools, and so on.

You do want a roof overhead if you are planning to work daily. Rain and snow really slow you down otherwise, and you want to keep your mill and lumber dry, as well as the ground around your mill. Mud and mills is not a good combination.

Ron also makes a good point about the by products. Since you are in an area where there are not many sawmills, you should be poised for a home-run in the by-product sales department. Sawdust, waste slabs, and so on can be sold to people who will use them. The slabs make firewood, and the sawdust can be used for animal bedding. Sales of these byproducts will boost your overall annual receipts, making it easier to make a profit. As Ron pointed out, sometimes it is the difference between a profit and no profit.

But you have come to the right place to ask questions. Welcome to the Forum!

[Ron Wenrich]

For those in the States, we need to translate the cubic meters to board feet.  Conversion is 423 bf per m3 or 2.4 m3 per Mbf.  That brings your stumpage value to around $190/Mbf.  How much do you estimate the logging costs to be?  Or are BC contracts just for logs?  As to size, you have to look at diameters, not length.  You get your length before you process the logs.

Your $115/m3 ends up being about $275/Mbf.  That gives you a working margin of only $85/Mbf if your log cost is $190/Mbf delivered. 

Let's take your 8000 m3 contract and convert that to footage.  It comes out to running a mill with the production capacity of about 3.5 MMbf.  Convert that to a daily production number of 32 m3 or 13.5 Mbf/day.  I see where you come up with your thinking of using 3 mills to get that production number. 

Your daily operational expenditures are about $1150/day.  Note:  I haven't included any trucking costs in the model.  Your yearly operational costs are estimated at $240k, or about $950/day.  That's a pretty low number.  It comes out to $30/m3 or $72/Mbf.

You will not get that kind of production with 2 employees.  Not using that type of equipment.  You will need sawyers, stackers, and a loader operator.  Is the lumber to be shipped green or kiln dried?  Does it need a grade stamp?  Is the lumber to be planed?  Those are additional steps to the process.

Additional information on wood waste is needed and the amount of overrun to be expected from the logs.  The wood waste will add a significant amount, depending on how its handled.  If it isn't sold, it becomes a loss.  Overrun comes about by getting more volume from the log than what's scaled.  That basically reduces your log costs. 

I've always used the formula of Profit = Lumber value - log costs - mfg costs.  The only one you have control over is the mfg costs, as the lumber and log values are set by market conditions.  Waste products get counted into the lumber value.

[Meadows Miller]

Gday

And Welcome to The Forum  ;) ;D 8) 8) The other members have made some very good points  ;) I have Looked Hard at the West Coast for a long time now as I use to Saw and Sell alot of Australian Grown Doiuglas Fir here (@ $660 to $1200m3 and could sell alot more now if I had it !! ) Then some bright spark decided  export the lot We had to the Chinese and the Japanese  @ $35 a m3 and we where Paying $80 to $100  the only thing I am lacking is the cashflow to do it but I am working on that as I want to sell High Quality Douglas Fir in My Yard here but I know I have to Saw it Myself  ;) 

Now from My Math you are going to be trying to saw for about $60 a m3 sawn @ 50% recovery (at the $240000 after log costs in the first year ???)  and If your trying to work to a Price they are setting I personally would not bother with it they want to pay nothing for it as sawn timber but on the flip side they are willing to pay top dollar for logs  so to me that figures in at about $220m3 sawn ex mill am I in the ball park  ??? There are Better Markets out there for it and Australia is one of them We use about 1 million cubic meters of Douglas Fir per year  ;) at its peak the Issue is Quality with the Australian Market and the stuff the big mills have been sending has been dropping of in that feature I could buy stuff of the boat here but its rubbish every other yard is selling theres one yard that our familys delt with for 40 years was saying they could push and sell & Buy more if the quality was better like it use to be 10 years ago and there are plenty of yards like them too ???

You are not far off with the freight cost but there are deals to be had on sea freight too if you shop around as All those containers comming out of China and the Pacific have to get back to China at some stage   ;)

Now the boys have said production can and most likely should be put through a single mill and I agree with that fully that means you will only need one Top Sawyer to look after things Day to day and you would be only running a crew of 4 verses  having 7 to 8 runing three Quarter Saws with the rite mill ! I could put together an operation that could produce and most likely exceed the production your looking for for about $200 to 250k all in including mobile plant equipment as a new turn key mill . 

I assume the resource is second rotation (growth)  timber  ??? so you would be dealing with a small end dia of about 10" upto about 2 to 3' foot diameter  and in random lengths of 30 to 50'  ???


You said you where looking for a Partner to look after the sawmilling aspect I might be interested but it all depends on how it is all set up and what market you want to chase as I will be chasing the premium end of the market  which as I said I can do over time  ;)

Regards Chris 

[Meadows Miller]

Ron and I got onto the same thing that that $240k wont cut it But the difference is Im calculating you taking in 8000m3 of log and at 50% recovery you will only get 4000m3 Sawn  I average 60% on a Circ or better if they are good logs and Ill add you want to be making a profit from the get go even if its small  ;)

was the $350 per thousand you where quoting the West Coast Price Report ? as you will find the big mills that cut on those rates are either running at a loss themselves and have a percentage they sell at a higher rate and they also get logs alot cheaper than the avverage joe  ??? :P : Hull Oakes are at a starting rate of $650 per thousand $276.50 a cubic meter which is more realistic  ;)

Regards Chris

[bevy86]

Ron, Okrafarmer, and Chris, thanks for your input. When i read your responses this morning my head was spinning a little, so i have tried to spend the day learning general terms and practices... Youtube is truly a great resource, as have been my random phone calls to sawmills operating in BC!

I have a little more information, and then would like to try and walk through a numbers example again...

I am looking at purchasing logs that are 10 inches to 30 inches, and 30 to 50 feet long. I will be looking to cut them to lengths of 4 meters, or 13.1 feet.

I can sell a 9 cubic foot bag of sawdust for $5.00, and a half cord of a slab (new language to me) for $15.00
I have no context yet for just how much of these products i would have from a 8000m3 or 3.5MMbf operation.

So, my stumpage cost including transportation to get the logs to my yard will be $90 per m3 or $216mbf.

I would like to work on the MFG costs to figure out a reasonable estimate, so i can determine what price i would have to charge in order to make a little money, or even break even.

Still wrapping my head around recovery rates... essentially if i have 8000m3, i could reason that 4000m3 will be the amount of finished cut wood, with the other 4000m3 made up of sawdust, waste and firewood?

I have been doing the best research i can online without any experience to identify a type of sawmill that would be ideal for this operation... i was reading about a Pilous CTR 950H.... handles the dimensions i require, is hydraulic, and had a great youtube video! Plus i found one that is 2 years old for 45,000 Canadian in British Colombia. I can't determine if it is capable of performing 13.5mbf/day. I want to assume that this machine, along with other equipment (saws, stackers, loader etc.) is $100,000 for my first year.

If this is a sufficient machine for the task, could i operate my capacity with a 4 man crew? 1 machine operator, and three "support staff" doing more of the yard work and physical moving? I've looked into the salaries in the region, and i think with 4 employees i need total annual wage expense of 175,000.

For simplicity, i want to assume that my transportation costs from my operation to my final destination don't exist right now. I have enough to walk through before adding this in!

If we look at the equation Profit= lumber value- log costs - Mfg costs I am looking at it this way right now:

Log Costs= 216/mbf
MFG = 100,000 (equipment) + 175,000 (employees) + 25,000 (other expenses) = 90/mbf

Profit= lumber value - 306/mbf

So, i need to generate profit from 4000m3 of cut lumber (not planed), plus firewood and wood chips equal to 306/mbf to break even. This works out to approximately $127.5 m3, and i will be only selling 4000m3, so an average price of around $220m3 upwards to $250m3 (depending on quantity of wood waste i can sell) would be required.

Am i making a little more sense than last night regarding what it would cost to run an operation, the type of machinery required and the man power? I apologize for turning this into a math class. Trying to gain my basic understanding before working with a consulting company if it seems it might be feasible! I am very thankful for any input!

[Okrafarmer]

Well, I think this little exercise on here is helping you to feel your way. Don't apologize, we're all here to help each other. I am personally not the one who can crunch your hard numbers, but I can help with some of the concepts.

One thing to remember is all the hidden costs, and hidden production robbers. Try to build in some margin of error to account for things that aren't real obvious from the beginning. There are going to be things that come up, that cost more or take longer than you expect, or little problems you don't anticipate. So build in a margin for error to your estimate, at least when you get to the final stages of estimating.

Having said that, it is also good to make sure the sawmill(s) and support machinery you choose are able to produce somewhat greater production numbers than you think you will need, because if you are having to push the machines and crews hard, day in and day out, to achieve your profitability numbers, you don't have much way to get ahead. Try to have some extra capacity left over, around 10% maybe, to allow for catching up after break-downs and other similar incidents, or to allow for additional production capacity in case your targeted market expands, or in case some new market develops allowing you to make additional profit from additional milling. (Either more of the same you are doing already, or a new product or a new market).

Just some more things to think about.  ;)

[Ron Wenrich]

You're looking at it the right way. 

Questions are still on the wood waste side.  Is there a market for the dust, and how much capital will you have tied up in seasonal slab sales?  Cash flow gets to be a problem.  You don't want to handle your wood waste any more than necessary.  We chip our slabs and blow our dust into trailers.  No double handling.  We have established markets.

$25k for other expenses are probably too low.  How much do you expect your energy costs to be? 

$90/Mbf is a small number.  The small band saw is not going to give you the production you need to get those costs in line.  Production costs are too high, since production levels are too low.  Its also very labor intensive.  Labor is an expensive item.  Are you sure you have all those hidden labor costs in your numbers?  Time is also a consideration.  Its a non-renewable resource, and you want to get as much production as you can get out of a unit of time. 

If I was looking at a startup mill, I would be looking at a Davco twin cut.  Look it up on line, and look at the videos.  These operations will get upwards of 20 Mbf per day.  They are portable, but you aren't looking at portability.  I don't know if you can find used, or what the costs are.  Maybe a lease situation would suit.  They're made in Alberta.  Set up costs would be minimal.

I would think you would be looking at 5 employees.  Sawyer, loader operator, edger man, and 2 stackers. 

Overrun is a factor here.  Chris says he's getting a 50% overrun.  That translates to 1500 bf out of 1000 bf of logs.  I've never dealt in cubic measures, so I'm at a loss here.  I do know that some of the Southern mills that run dimension stock use a lumber recovery factor or LRF.  That factor is how many bf of lumber per cubic feet of logs.  It varies widely, depending on equipment and size of logs.  A LRF of 7 is considered high, and the norm seems to be around 6.  Maybe you can sniff out a good yield factor by contacting one of the government agencies in the area.  It gets to be important in your calculations, as it affects log costs.

[Meadows Miller]

Gday

Ron I can understand abit of confusion with how our recovery calculations work Mate  We here in Australia,NZ & Canada W/coast Bc have brought our logs for years based either on a Measured Volume or a Ton Rate the ton rate has allowances for wood weight too bring it into line with a M3 Volume  just to confuse things even more  ;)

Here and I think Bevy is in the same boat with his log purchasing  ;) we take the log say 24" (600mm) mid point dia and 20' (6 meters) long (ill do everything in metric from here on in)

so 3.14 xradius xradius xlength = log volume  so 3.14x.300mmx.300mmx6meters = 1.69 m3 Cubic Meters of solid wood Its upto you as a Sawyer to get the most square stuff out of that round  ;) so when I quote 50% recovery that means out of 1.69m3 of log you Recover .845m3 of sawn timber (359bft) thats for poor recovery in a log like that when I am in logs like that I run at about 60% to 70% easy depending on the grade I am chasing so that same 1.69m3 of log will produce 1.01M3 sawn at 60% and 1.18m3 of sawn timber at 70% Recovery so that same log imput cost 1.69m3 x $90m3 = $152 and a sale price of $235m3 which is their mid range Pricing  ;) you can make a return of either $46m3 @50% Recovery  / $85m3 @ 60% Recovery & A Whopping $125m3 @ 70% Recovery Those three last figures are whats left to cover sawing costs after taking the cost of the Log out now with each step up in recovery you get a two fold bonus as every percentage point you climb not only dose your log cost get pulled back but you also gain valuable timber as what that log cost you is always going to be the same its what you make out of it which is knowing your allowances allowed to get away with Wane and Want Knot Size ect 

Now do not  think you should budget on getting above 60% on any of your costings with the run of logs you will be seeing  ;) as thats why alot of Sawmills fail esp when they take over another operation or start from scratch as Recovery is the main thing that is going to affect your viabilty as a business and it gets harder when you have a sawyer or people that lack the skills or have a care factor 0 attitude  :( That is why I used the Figure of 50% But with the rite crew and people you can get upto that  ;) The Sawyers the Main Key as he can make afew hundred thousand dollars a years difference to a Sawmills Viability a top sawyer down here will run you on his own between $80 and $120000pa

Ron I think you boys are spoiled overthere been able to buy logs that you already have a realistic recovery calculated and a known set price on what its going to cost you before you unload and Saw them  Mate  ;) :D ;D 8)

Regards Chris

[Okrafarmer]

Chris, that's the price you pay for boringness! I never know what I'm getting, we have more than 100 species here that could be milled, and I hope I mill them all before I die. Already done maybe 22 species or so, and that's barely 10-15,000 bf!

[Meadows Miller]

Yah My Friends tell Me that Do you think it comes with been around mills almost daily since I was 18months old Mate   ??? ;) :D  :D :D I have only dropped below 50% once and I was not happy about 42%  but the logs where just plain rubbish  :( :'(  another Mill I worked at in my early 20s use to cut Strait Pulpwood into pallet timber and I would average 55% Recovery I was in high cotton as the tother sawyer was batteling to hit the mid 40s  ;) ;D 8)

I am Sure you will get to over 100 with the logs you have access to as the reason I am over 100 is because of tree lopping logs Mate  ;) ;D 8)

Regards Chris

[Meadows Miller]

Bevy I Agree fully with Rons comments !! and have a look at the Davco Twin Cut I think they nun at about $250k for the portable but it would pump out the production on those logs you would be getting  ;) Davco is already a Member look for TwinCut is his user name  ;)

Regards Chris

[Bandmill Bandit]

Hi Bevy
Welcome to the Forum.

Been there! Done that! Dont waste the energy to even think about it for the chinese market.
Dont know where you are getting your numbers but they aren't even close to what you would actually get and my numbers are based on Weyerhaeuser current chinese exports for the first 2 quarters of this year.

That Price is equal to under $200MBF FOB Canadian west coast port. The margins work out to less than 5 % on less than 25% of the lumber that comes out of the logs they process to meet the conditions of the contract. In the mills with water sawing systems they recover close to 70% so that means that about 16.5 % of gross log volume coming into the mill gets shipped to China. You have to sell the rest locally. Also must carry a Canadian Grade stamp and must be Heat treated and inspected BEFORE it is loaded in the container, and then container fumigated and sealed at the mill. ALL lumber will have to be #1 and #2 lumber.

Basicly to put it in perspective for you let me put it this way.
right now all the operating big mills are shipping about 20% of their volume to china and other asian countries at about an over all break even point. The profit market is at a home.

Why are the big mills even shipping at such low margins? The answer is simple but the process is complex.

To get access to the Chinese timber market! to do that they have to deliver lumber while they build the infrastructure over there to harvest and process chinese timber which is under way now.

By doing it this way, they end up in a position where they are using the money paid to them in china for lumber produced here to build the infrastructure over there and in so doing avoid the very heavy excise tax charged by the chinese government to get the money out of China.

500K isnt even enough to get you into  trouble properly for a venture like this. 

I sent you a PM. Call me when you get a chance.   

[Ron Wenrich]

Chris

I think I got what you're saying.  In hardwoods, we usually use a scale and grade system.  So, the input value of the logs will vary.  Also, the lumber value on the tail end will value.  When you have those 2 factors, you can figure up where your mfg costs should be at.  Take a time study on log sawing and plug in your cost/minute, and you can figure out how much it costs to produce the logs.  But, you need to know your numbers.  Most mills don't.

BTW, Twin cut was a different type of mill.  It wasn't Davco. 

Bandit

I always figure that someone who has a great market really doesn't understand the complexity of commercial sawmilling.  Your input is pretty much the same as what I've been seeing in our yard.  The Chinese come in to inspect logs, and they're very selective.  They might pay ok, but they pick only the best.  We don't see a whole lot of Chinese buyers.

I also figured there were secondary operations that had to be put to the dimension lumber to make it to market. 

Thanks for the input.

[Bandmill Bandit]

Ron

One other thing that I did not mentions was MacBlo's venture into "barge sawmills" that were loading raw logs along the BC coast and then processing enroute to Asia. The big motivations for this venture in the first place  were wages, insurance and environmental factors. I dont know if they are still operating them but I'd be surprised if they have stopped. Gross input costs on the barge mill came in about 60% lower than a comparable onshore stationary mill in the lower mainland based on 1998 numbers which are the last numbers I reviewed.
.   

[Meadows Miller]

Gday

Bandit The Sawmill Ships are still running Mate not  in Australia anymore as they where getting slapped with fines back in mid 90s every time they got back for a load I think  due to the fact they would dump everything they did not want Sawdust and Bark off the side of the ship on their way up the east coast  so they only had clean Timber and Chips to offload when they got to the other end they have been around since the late70s early80s from what i heard they work out of South America mainly now   ;)

Your rite with how the bigger mills are doing things as there I one of the largest sawmills here are doing the same and they are also looking into shipping their logs out n bringing sawn timber back here but I highly doubt the latter will happen as fright costs could blow out and make it unviable very easily  ;) but then again I could be wrong as Aust has some of the highest Wholesale and Retail Prices in the world but Log Imput Costs go up in line with that too

I have in the past cut export cants but we pulled the Hi Grade boards of the side and sent them either a 4x6", 6x6" or and 8x6" Boxed heart center cant in Pine  ;) :D the other we where doing 2 containers a day of recovery and shorts in Mountain Ash but a majority of it was going to get finger jointed and come back to Australia I have looked into exporting lumber and cant realy be bothered with it theres plenty of market here  ;) ;D 8)

Ron which ones that  ??? I like the one with the two 36" saws the fixed slant carriage and the saws rotate at the end of each cut to double cut coming and going and everything falls nto a belt ??? Im  more of a traditional Sawmiller though I like seeing that timber getting feed through a stationary saw  Mate  ;) :D ;D 8)

Regards Chris

[Bandmill Bandit]

Yea meadows

I had heard much the same story from a friend that used be a sawyer on one of the MacBlo mill ships and the ships he sailed on sail out of south america and Cypress as home ports. he said that they got nailed a couple of times for the dumping fines too and then added a couple of other precessing systems and started offloading mulch and dry hog fuel to the power generator corps in asia. Said it basically paid the fuel cost for the round trip.

I called my friend this after noon and he was actually home. said the ships are still running but I wouldn't recognize one it ran over me now. they are running close to 85% recovery inclusive of all waste product and have one prototype mill that is converting the the wood waste that they cant sell to steam on board to drive the generators that power the milling system and heat the kilns. He has no idea what the numbers are like but said it looking like with some tweaking it may be the mill ship of the future. that one has one high pressure water saw on it as well. said the plan is to deliver soft woods from west coast to south hemisphere markets and bring back hard woods that we dont grow here.

It is pilot project at this time so will be interesting to see how that goes.

I am looking at possibly importing hard woods as well. Teak, mahogany,   will be my first choice and then some of the other  not so common species as well. Want to bring them in as large cants and then cut to order here. figure one container a month to start with. The demand for it is there if I can get top quality product landed here at a decent price. Any body got any input they would like to contribute on providing some of those woods IF I can make it work.




 

[Solomon]

I know nothing about the mill you're talking. about.   However, the hydraulic band mill I own can saw 4000 bf a day easily with a couple guys working with me.
  4000 bf  is about 20 logs  10 feet long and  30 inches in diameter.   Give or take some over/under run.
  I am a part time sawyer and have learned through trial and error.
  I have learned well some hard lessons and can tell you that I have learned a lot just from reading the posts on this site.
   Hang in here ,  some of the guys on this site have forgotten more about sawing than I will ever know.   They have taught me a lot in the short time I have been on here and I really look up to them.
   You're in the right place.
Pete.   Chesapeake, Virginia

[Meadows Miller]

Its A Global Market These Days aint it Your looking at bringing timber from My way and I am looking over your way Mate    :D ;D ;D A while back I got offered alot of radiata out of South Ameriaca Sawlog prices started at $20 to $25 m3 on the landing early last year  @ 8" sed trick was you had to commit to pretty large ongoing voumes  ;) I know one company here that imports 500 to 600 m3 a month of just 3&4x1 Decking timber from there but its costing them $550 a m3 K/D Dressed untreated landed here so someone is making money somwhere along the bloody line Mate   ;) :D I have been offered that job but its a hard time finding secure volumes of the rite logs the big boys have it all tied up here  : :

[Solomon]

Meadows Miller,   Tell me more about the sawmill ships.  I had no clue sawing is being done on the high seas.    This boggles my mind.
  Just when I think I'm starting to know a little, I learn how little I know.    The more knowledge I gain,  the more I see my own ignorance.  Does that make any sense ?
   Pete.    mastermason167@yahoo.com