Chainsaw Mill: Milling a log thats longer than your guide board

[danf26]

Hello,

Im wondering if there are any Chainsaw Mill pros out there that can offer me some good advice . . .

What's the best way to mill a long log (aka - a log longer than your guide board)? Fastest, easiest, best result, etc. I need a 24' timber, and have a 16' guide board. I run a Husqvarna 372XP with a 24" bar, and have both the standard Granberg Alaskan Mill, and the mini-mill.

I'm fine once I get that first cut made, so all Im asking is: does anyone have a good system they want to share about how to make that first cut on a log that's longer than your guide board?

Thanks!
Dan

[beenthere]

What dimensions (width and thickness) is your guide board?

[snowshoveler]

I have in a pinch used an aluminum ladder. Worked pretty good for me.
Chris

[mikeb1079]

one technique i've seen (not tried myself) is to pull a string taut across the length of your log perhaps an inch or so above it.  then drive lag screws every few feet and make the head of the lag flush to the string.  so now you have the level heads of the lag screws on one side of the log.  move string over a few inches and repeat process.  you can use a 2x6 or whatever to rest on the lag screws and this will be your guide board.  if your guide board is 16' you can slab til your almost out of guide board and simply slide the board further along to complete the cut.  hopefully that makes sense w/o a pic 

[colinofthewoods]

I would run into this quite a bit,  I would just nail a 2x6 or sometimes even a 2x4 off the end to make up the difference.  As long as it is shimmed up and straight to the board it will work. Just work slow and do not rock the saw.
  In a case like this I would slab the log down and then edge with a chalkline to save having to mess with the guide board too much. I can usually edge pretty darn square following the chalk line up to about 6" thick.
 
In a pinch I have used 3 or 4 boards to make up a guide board before.  This is the quick and dirty way to do it.  I have often worked water access places where you can't get a longer board if you need one.  My best guide board I ever had was a 3x12x12' that I found washed up on the beach.

[Peder McElroy]

I have done it the way Mikeb1079 said,only just slide the board forward as you get close to the end of your 16' board. I also use at least a 2x10 for my guide board so it won't rock so much. And 20p nails work as good as lags.
Peder

[terrifictimbersllc]

What MikeB said. 

I used a "ladder" made from 2 12' 2x4's with 4x4 braces about every 30" between on threaded rod.  On the bottom of the 2x4 's there was a 11-1/2' 1-1/2" angle iron.  I would support it mid-span with lags into the log, and if extra length needed, have lags placed where the "ladder" could be slid along under the mill.   Tops of lags are aligned with a chalk line stretched tight.

[danf26]

Intuitively, the lag bolt method makes the most sense to me, and seems the simplest for my particular situation (I only need one long timber, and dont know if I'll be needing another any time soon). The trick then, it seems to me, is getting lag bolts with big enough heads; and finding a good log that can accommodate the depth needed to adequately sink the bolts, while still being small enough in diameter to get a pass with the mill without hitting the ends of the bolts.

Ahh, I would love to HEW this log!

[terrifictimbersllc]

Intuitively, the lag bolt method makes the most sense to me, and seems the simplest for my particular situation (I only need one long timber, and dont know if I'll be needing another any time soon). The trick then, it seems to me, is getting lag bolts with big enough heads; and finding a good log that can accommodate the depth needed to adequately sink the bolts, while still being small enough in diameter to get a pass with the mill without hitting the ends of the bolts.

Ahh, I would love to HEW this log!

Carried quite a few lag bolts 6-12" to accommodate log irregularities. Anyone want the ladder it comes with the bolts.  :D  Weighs quite a bit won't be shipping!

[Brucer]

I used the lag bolt system for 20 years. It was in Will Malloff's book, "Chainsaw lumber making". I used a 12' long 2x12 with two pieces of 2" x 1/8" angle iron screwed along the edges on the bottom (with countersunk screws). Ordinary 3/8" lag screws on 9-1/2" centres and spaced every 4'. Wooden blocks lag screwed into the ends would support the guide board -- a string stretched tightly between them would let me align the lag screws.

Use kerf wedges every 4' or so to keep the cut open.

[Dave VH]

I've not run a chainsaw mill before, but I do understand the principle.  I know that it may be hard to find a 24' one piece ladder, but 24' aluminum walk planks (we call them picks) are fairly common, and designed to support freespan weight.  I know that you can rent them from either siding stores, or rental places.  I own several, and use them quite a bit.  That my solve your problem

[subarctic_moose]

I used the lag bolt system for 20 years. It was in Will Malloff's book, "Chainsaw lumber making". I used a 12' long 2x12 with two pieces of 2" x 1/8" angle iron screwed along the edges on the bottom (with countersunk screws). Ordinary 3/8" lag screws on 9-1/2" centres and spaced every 4'. Wooden blocks lag screwed into the ends would support the guide board -- a string stretched tightly between them would let me align the lag screws.

Use kerf wedges every 4' or so to keep the cut open.

@Brucer, I know it was a while ago that you were using this system, but do you know if a 2x12 would still work as a guide on narrower trees (12"-15" DBH) vs a 2x8 or 2x10? One thing I haven't been able to figure out from Will's book is whether the lag bolts are supposed to support the angle iron on the outer portion of the plank, the wood in the middle portion, or if it doesn't matter at all.
Thanks for your write up on Malloff winch. I'm think I'm going to try the Granberg Winch out first, but you never know...

[burdman_22]

I always use multiple guide boards to make the length I need if I dont have one long enough. I just use a string to make sure they are level with one another, and shim in spots that need it.

[Brucer]

The lag bolts support the angle iron. That way you can slide the plank down a longer log without chewing up the wood.

I used a 2x12 no matter what the log size. The end blocks were cut to fit the 2x12 and they had several holes for lag screws so they could be attached to any log.

I had to get creative to support the guide plank down the length of narrower logs. I made up some 12 inch long 2x4s with a 5/16" hole about 1-1/4" from either end and a few 3/8" holes near the centre. I ran a lag screw through the end holes to cut some threads. This works best in greener wood.

I would mount the 2x4s board across the log, bolting them down with a couple of lag screws through the 3/8" holes near the center. To make sure they wouldn't rock I would use the chainsaw to "plane" a four inch wide flat on the top of the log every four feet. The flats didn't have to be exactly parallel to each other or the end boards. Once I had the 2x4's bolted down I could just run a couple of lag screws through the holes I had "tapped" near the ends.

It's a little extra work but it's very stable and the wider plank makes it easier to keep the saw from rocking side to side.

[Don P]

I most often use plumbers holey metal strapping, a ladder section shimmed parallel to a string stretched along the side levelled to the heart line. I start at a point of contact with the log, the butt flare, and you can mark a level line and saw a bench right there, and put two pieces of strap over the rung, one over each end of that rung. Shim the rails level and secure the strapping with roofing screws that will penetrate into some wood. Use the level to take a height above string and repeat shimming and securing the ladder at the set height above the string as you go. With a cordless impact it goes pretty quick.

[Brucer]

I like the strapping idea, Don. I was always thinking about pushing up to keep it level. You're pulling it down. The only cordless tools when I was chainsaw milling were made by Armstrong :(.

[subarctic_moose]

Thanks for the know-how gents.

Brucer, the 2x4 method is a great idea. I tried it out today but had no luck. Using a lag bolt to secure the 2x4 is key- I used wood screws due to clearance constraints and the weight of the 2x12x12' plus the angle iron ripped everything out as soon as I started trying to slide it.

Oh well. 

Don, the ladder method seems like a great idea for my use case. But I think I'm going to take the angle iron and lumber and build out some tracks and mounting for the 661. Luckily, the previous owners left me 10 railroad ties and those should make a nice base to work on. Darn "Bocce court" is right in the middle of where the barn needs to go anyway :D

[Don P]

I like the strapping idea, Don. I was always thinking about pushing up to keep it level. You're pulling it down. The only cordless tools when I was chainsaw milling were made by Armstrong :(.

The freedom of ignorance, if I don't have a clue something different is bound to happen :D. Now if you have an aluminum walkboard, flip it over, shim and screw right through the stamped mud cleat holes.  
When I said to put the plumbers strapping out at the ends of the rungs. Most of the time I have them choked in to somewhere near where the rungs are in contact with the bark. I'm playing a game to get enough penetration and width of support while keeping the slab as thin as possible.
If we have enough bar I'll take the next cut as diagonal as possible across the opening cut, trying to ride across any dips from me or the ladder rocking and not repeat them.

[Brucer]

3/8" lag bolts are essential to fasten down anything that is going to be pulled on, pushed on, or dropped on. I would sometimes use a couple of 3-1/2" scaffolding nails (double headed) to position a block before running the lag bolts in.

If clearance over the bolt head is a problem, you can countersink the hole -- make it big enough to accept a 3/8" ID washer. There's enough meat in a 2x4 to allow it. You only need the extra thickness at the ends where you're going to thread in the supporting lag screws.

Lubrication is your friend. Cheap vegetable oil in a wide mouthed jar and a 1" paint brush -- paint the metal rails on the bottom before you position the board and it will slide more easily.

Put candle wax on the threads of lag screws before you run them in. You won't believe how much easier it is. Never use soap -- it attracts moisture and makes the wood swell.

On smaller diameter logs where I wanted the slabs to be as thin as possible, I would straddle the log with the mill and saw off the bottom for my opening cut . You need to have a method of lifting the log at either end so you can shift your supports out of the way as the mill passes them. Once you've cut past the support, use kerf wedges to keep from pinching the bar when you set the log back down. I still have a piece of 1/32" x 8" x 8' birch in the basement that I sawed off the bottom of a cant ;D.

[subarctic_moose]

Thanks Brucer. I was definitely not utilizing correct technique. My clearance issues were between the lag bolts / screws holding the 2x4 to the tree and the top of the first cut. As you and Don pointed out, one way to overcome this is removing the guide as you're milling through the area and then reinstalling it.

Or I can stop trying to be so greedy with the cuts and allow some more clearance between the bark and the first cut  :D