Dying trees

[Ernie]

I have a problem.  No don't call the psychiatrists in, I'm beyond help there.

A few years ago we had a couple of pawlonias die for no apparent reason. They were about 30" DBH, I cut them for fire wood before I found out that in China, they make chests out of pawlonia and when the house burns down the chests are still OK.  So much for firewood.  Last year they put out suckers from both the stumps and the roots.  We transpalnted the root suckers  and they are doing welll.  We also have the odd pine and eucalupt die again for no apparent reason.  It only takes one season for them to expire. so at least it's quick..

I would appreciate any help I could get.  There is no sign of rot or insect damage.

[Ianab]

Waterlogged roots?
Only a guess, but that can kill a tree pretty quick.

ian

[Ernie]

Good try, beautifully free draining.  We even had willows dying.  We use no toxic sprays, I am at a loss.

[Texas Ranger]

Look beyond the tree, is there septic work that has been done?  Is there a new drive way or other construction near the trees, or even fuel run off from a barn, garage, or such?  Had a mystery disease slowly killing a live oak on a friends land.  Had just built a new drive way and I suspected chemicals from the black top, but then he mentioned that his natural gas bill had gone up, and a mild winter,too.  Found out the work on the drive way had cracked the gas line, natural gas was saturating the soil under the drive way, which covered about half the tree roots, wonder the smell of the gas didn't clue us quicker.  Oxygen deprivation was a best guess after that.  Some times you have to step back.

[SwampDonkey]

I'm with Texas Ranger on this, I've seen folks move new loam on their lawns while wishing to maintain the existing trees. Soon after the new loam is brought in the leaves fall from the trees and they died. This may take a 3 or 4 weeks.  Trees roots were deprived from oxygen by smothering the roots with the loam. I see alot of white birch and red maple killed this way. Also some species like grey birch (lowland shrub) die for no apparent reason and they are generally accustomed to wetter soils. Too much drying or wetting can stress the trees either way, beyond recovery, especially if they are considered old for that species.

[Doc]

Swamp Donkey or anyone else chime in here too. You are saying that too wet or dry (changing these conditions around a tree) can kill it, and this makes sense. What about changes in soil pH? If you haul in soil from a different area with a different chemical makeup (possible different pH), don't you stand the same chance of damage? I realize you would have to move ina  substantial amount of soil to affect a given are for pH (unlike suffocation which could be done with much less obviously), but is this not a possibility as well?

Doc

[Texas Ranger]

Less a probability than moving in to much dirt as Swamper said.  Trees are somewhat of a broad band breed, soils wise, they can grow in most any type, but do better in some than others.  Southern Yellow Pine as an example, they will grow in anything, including sterile sand, just not well, and not long.

I would be more concerned about what pollutants may be in the soil

[Ernie]

Texas Ranger

We are talking about clean green New Zealand.  Pollutants??  Not in NZ.  But I'll check it out anyway  You can never believe the politicans  If they say No pollutants, it just means you have to look harder.  Dow chamicals was making Agent Orange for Vietnam in our local town and now we have a huge number of people with very high dioxin levels and lots of weird birth defects and diseases which the various governments have denied for years.. Dow stopped making it ages ago and people have complained for years.  Now there has finally been an official acknowledgement that there might be a problem.  I'd better not get started on politics, it's not good for my heart problems..

Ernie

[farmerdoug]

Ernie,  They still make it here.  It is called Graximone Extra here and is used as a weed burndown.  It will burn the green out of just about anything it touches but does not kill the roots so you still have to work them up.  If not the plants will grow back twice as fast.  :P The problem with Agent Orange is they were lax wih quality control and let dixon contaminate it.  They knew this but figured it was war and the enemy would not know.  To bad they did not think about the troops(theirs and ours) being sprayed on with it.  All for the all mighty dollar. >:(

[Ernie]

farmerDoug

There was also a lot of 2-4-5-T in the brew just to give it the toxic component.  Gramoxone/paraquat is still available here and is great as long as you don't drink it.m  Whereas 2-4-5-T is real bad if it touches you, even the fumes.

Aint the worship of the almighty dollar Grand.

Please note the tongue deeply embedded in my cheek

Ernie