DH4000/L200 help

[devo]

Been thinking about this today. What kind of switches are they?  Since the motor has no built in protection, there must be something is the circuit somewhere to protect from a locked/overheating motor. Since the motor will start without the fan blade and wont with it on, it sounds like bad protection (contacter?). Do the switches have the protection built into them. If not I would look elsewhere in the circuit.

[Paul_H]

When I talked to Nyle yesterday I was told that it is a motor starter switch that was built exclusively for Nyle so I had no way of finding one locally to get me going faster.Stan told me the specs but I can't find the paper that I wrote it on.
I debated on whether or not i should rob one from one of the two circulating fans but opted to  buy two switches and have them sent by an overnight courrier and have it here today. They didn't make it :-\

What other spare parts should a person have on hand?Are there any circuit breakers or other system components that I should be stocking?

Thanks

[Don_Lewis]

The switches contain the overload. Make sure you hooked the new motor up for 220v. The one you got probably can be wired for either 110 or 220v.  You could swap overload switches with the fans as what you buy locally will fit easily in the boxes but not easily into the controller. You can buy a calibrated motor overload switches that go in the switch boxes for the fans locally. You get them rated for the same amps. The most popular ones are made by GE. The switch has heaters for different amperages and you buy one that matches your motor. Or, you can get them from Nyle which is usually less expensive.

[Paul_H]

 Don,
Yes,the motor I put in the unit could be wired either way but I made sure that it was 220 V and that the rotation was correct (clockwise)

I was talking on the phone last night to another DH4000 owner who lives an hour and a half from me.We have sent each other work if too busy.I told him about the problems I've had and that it turned out it was the switch.
He said that his system switch burned out quite awhile back and that he replaced it with a standard 240 v switch that he adapted to fit into the controller.
I explained to him that from what I have learned from this thread,he is risking serious damage to his whole system,maybe even a fire.When I get the two switches,I'll mail one over to him.

[Ironwood]

PaulH,

  Wow what a hassle. I know one specialty mill and kiln here in Pa. who keeps a whole EBAC LD3000 spare on hand,  expensive but it keeps him going. I guess it depends on your volume/time/ cost  factors. I certainly can't afford that but he has shared a lot  of info with me as to how to keep my LD3000 healthy as he has run his for years and years and knows the ins and outs. Good luck Reid

[Paul_H]

Well,the saga continues. I changed out the switch this week and flipped it on and the unit started right up. I had the humidity set at 95 RH and the temp at 140 F to start the load of Alder.I went in the chamber to make a final check before closing the doors and it shut down again.
Went back and flipped the system switch again but it tripped immediatly.Let it alone for a couple of minutes and tried the switch again.The fan came on but tripped after a half minute.
Thought maybe it was a problem with the heating coils so I reset the temp below the outside temp.Same thing happened again after 30 seconds or so.

Phoned Nyle and was told that there had been problems with the system switches so I tried the extra one that I had and got the same results.

The only thing that seemed out of line was inside the control box there is a transformer that was loose where it screws into the bottom of the box.Wondered if it was a ground problem but tightening didn't change anything. And the unit inside the chamber I noticed that the two wires that go into the bottom of the compresser were warm to the touch but as far as I know,the compresser wasn't coming on.

I'm totally baffled  :-\

[devo]

Is the compresser supposed to be starting with everything else? Maybe a locked compresser?

Do you have a clamp on ampmeter, or know someone who does. Checking the current in the wires going to the fan and compresser when you try to start up may help you find the source of the problem.

I don't know much about kilns, but electricity in general I'm pretty good with and sounds like the problem could be something to do with those warm wires.

[Paul_H]

Devo,
The compressor is not supposed to come on until the temp reaches some where around 80 F and because I have the RH set at 95 it should definately not come on. The last thing I checked though,was to put a lighter on the heat sensor in the chamber and when it showed 115 F,I went in and started the unit and set the RH down to 45 which kicked the compressor on.

At least I think it came on because there was the normal "click" at the panel that happens when the compressor turns on.If the compressor is locked,is there an easy fix?

I will ask around and see if I can borrow a clamp ampmeter.

I sure appreciate your help.

[DR Buck]

This is scary thread. :-\ .   My new DH4000 is sitting in the shed waiting to be installed.   How old is your unit Paul?

[Paul_H]

DR_Buck

I bought it in June 2002 and first used it in October 02 and it has worked like a dream until a few weeks ago.It seems my problem with this is unique because there are other owners here on the forum and none have mentioned having these issues.

I think you will like the DH4000 although a few times in the past weeks I've thought about grabbing a board and giving it a sound thrashing   ???

[devo]

My thought that mabey the compresser was locked was just an idea. I didn't know if it was starting with everything else or not. As I said I don't know much about kilns. Sounds like the compresser is totaly seperate circuit. Still don't understand the warm wires though. Is anything else wired to the switch you changed? If not theres not much left that can be the problem. You have changed the motor, and the switch (twice), so all that is left is the wires themselves (in theory anyway).

[ronwood]

Paul_H,

Have you tried to move the power from the compressor. Warm wires to the compressor indicate to much current being draw. It could be that the compressor motor windings are shorted out causiing excessive. Do you have a wiring diagram that we could look at.

Ron

[devo]

Ron,

Paul faxed me a wiring diagram last night and the warm wires are likely the compresser crankcase heater and is normal. The compesser and chamber heater are wired through a relay and shouldn't cause the problem Paul is describing. I'm thinking based on something Paul described earlier, that the problem is in a wire. He said early in this that when the motor was taken off its mounts and the fan blade removed the motor would run, but when bolted back down it wouldn't. That made me think that the position of the wire has something to do with it, since the motor and the start switch have been changed. Probably will find if it is the wire that the insulation has been crushed where it enters the motor.

P.S. Ron, I haven't forgotten about those plans, I'm trying my best to get the furnace done so I can send them to ya, but I seen to be moving a little slower this past week or so. I'll talk to buddy again and see if I can send them to you as is.

[ronwood]

Devo & Paul_H,

When the new motor was installed does the connection to the wiring occur inside the motor ie (a box mounted on the motor) . Not knowing the actual installation I wondering if the insulation on the wire may have failed near a strain relief.  Also could that wire be replaced easily.

Devo  Thanks for remembering the plans.

Ron

[Paul_H]

Ron and devo,

I will try the wires when I get back and see if there is a problem there.I still have plenty of slack to shorten up the wires and replace the ends.

I wasn't very clear on the part about the motor running when unbolted.What happened was I had it sitting out on the unit without the fan and it worked but when bolted in place again,it still worked until the fan was put back on,then the problems started again.


Thanks.

[Ga_Boy]

Paul,

I have been following this post.

The only thing I can offer is my 45 and a full magazine, this wont fix the motor, gut it sure will put it out of your misery and might make you feel better.  I know I fell better when I go through 500 rounds.

Keep the faith..


Mark

[ronwood]

Paul_H,

I know this may be a silly question but did the fan spin free? Wondering if it 1s possible that it was binding somewhere when the motor is reinstalled.

Ron

[Paul_H]

Thanks for the offer Mark but I spent some time in a batting cage on Saturday so I feel better  :D

Ron,
Yes the fan spins free with no noise or vibration to speak of.

[Paul_H]

I went over to the kiln this morning and tried a few different attacks on the problem and decided to change the wire harness that goes from the terminal block in the unit to the motor.It is 3-14, around 3' long and rated 105 celsius and I replaced it with a chunk that is rated 60 celsius.

While I was in the hardware store I met up with a freind that had a clamp ampmeter and he dropped by and did a test. The motor used 15 amp on starting and dropped down to a consistant 3 amps but the unit would shut off after 30 seconds again.
We grabbed one of the switches off of the two circulating fans and tried it again and the unit stayed on and now the Alder in the kiln is finally cooking.

I suppose I should have tried that last week but didn't even consider that both new switches that were sent out from Maine would be faulty.The odd thing is that  one of the new switches that wouldn't run the fan in the unit,works to run the circulating fan in the chamber.All the motors are the same rating  ???

The switch specs are

FL.  amp- 3
Hertz DC 50/60
Delay   94
Trip amps -4.05


And I doulble checked the voltage with the meter and it is 220 at the plug.

[devo]

Glad to hear you got it running Paul. I hope your customer has been understanding. I wondered about the possibility that you got 2 bad switches, but what are the odds? Sounds like Nyle needs to get after thier supplier about that!

[Paul_H]

devo
My customer was pretty happy to hear it was running again because he was looking at having to buy some KD Alder to finish his job even though he has almost 2000 bf in the kiln.
I appreciate the help that you gave on this problem and I hope that this thread may save someone else grief in the future.