TimberKing 1440 w/Diesel Upgrade

[scogar]

So as an on again off again idea, I have spent a considerable amount of time looking at which sawmill to buy and wasted years doing so. When it was finally time to pull the trigger this supply disruption has caused me massive trouble. Having a year to year and a half wait has caused me to delay yet again, but that delay has caused me more thinking, etc. It's a never ending saga and I would love to just pull the trigger and have my mill in 30 days...oh well, not gonna happen.

So where I'm at right now is to purchase a TimberKing 1400. I expect to build on a 4 acre wooded lot and will need the building site and driveway cleared of trees. These trees will be used as nonstructural lumber (trim, cabinetry, misc, shed, etc.). I have access to another 14 acres of wooded land as well. So I want a trailered unit and initially started at the 1220CRZ but have decided to up things to the 1400. I wanted the 1620 but the steep jump in price from 1400 to 1620 seemed like too much to justify at this point based on available lumber.

I have been reading that I should consider the diesel as an upgrade, but was shocked to see that it added $8000 to the price. That's about 50% of the base price of the 1400. I don't know whether I have an exact question but the current thoughts are:

• Should I just get the 1400 with gas engine and see what happens with the possible thought to upgrade mill later if I do more?
• If I do get the diesel upgrade, is it worth it for what I currently foresee or is it overkill?

I guess I'll call Matt in a couple of days but if anyone has a thought or two I'd be interested. Between this and the waffling over a tractor/skid steer purchase I'm getting frustrated. I'm usually quite decisive, but these decisions are becoming as hard for me as it is for my wife to decide where to go out to eat.

[Southside]

Nobody, nobody, ever said "I really wish this sawmill had a smaller engine".  In the sawmill world torque is king and diesel beats gas when it comes to torque.  I would say get the biggest engine you can afford, it will hold its value - just look at the used world right now and used mills are selling for new or sometimes more than new prices.  

[ladylake]

 
 I think $8000 is too much for a diesel, it would take lots of sawing to pay that back.  After 5000 hours on a 27 hp Kolhler  I put on a 29hp Isuzu diesel, I found one on fleebay with 2 hours on it shipped to me for $1100, and  another $350 and a lot of fabricating to get it on the mill.  The best thing I did as it uses less than 1/2 gph sawing hard and now has over 12000 hours. Plus it saws way faster in the wide hard cuts than the Kohler ever did.  Steve 

[stavebuyer]

I think it would be hard to justify 8K on the diesel upgrade on a mill that was not fully hydraulic. 25hp +/- gas will handle most chores just fine and at the end of the day the production difference on a base mill won't really be all that much. You can find better returns for 8k once you get your hands on the mill.

[Walnut Beast]

I doubt your going to do framing lumber fast production. Don't need it. Keep what you are going to get or spend the extra and get the 1620 bigger and better . And the resale would be better. 1620!

[scogar]

Thanks Everyone for the most welcome advice

[Bruno of NH]

I have a 38hp gas and saw for a living.
I would have liked a diesel but could get the command control if I got the diesel. 
I'm happy but know at some point I will get a diesel (maybe) 

[caveman]

More power is almost always better as Southside said but... A well designed sawmill with a gas engine will produce good lumber.  We sawed with an Lt-28 with a 25hp gas engine for several years and it served us well.  We would still have it had I not put it on CL for what we thought was an unreasonably high price.  

The sawing, for most of us, is just a small part in the process of handling and producing lumber (felling trees, bucking logs, sawing logs into lumber, stacking lumber to dry, keeping bugs out of drying lumber, kiln drying lumber, surfacing rough lumber into acceptable lumber for the intended use, disposal of waste).  

With an extra $8K you could buy some pretty cool stuff (planer, jointer, dust collector, trailer, sharpener).  If I were planning to saw for a living, without having to deal with the lumber after it was sawn, I would go for a diesel or electric power source.  If taking a tree to a finished product for my own use, I'd look for deals and weigh the options of what my money could do for me.

[farmfromkansas]

Have to agree with Walnut Beast.  The 1620 is the mill I would want from TK.  

[scogar]

So I spoke with Matt at Timberking and it seems the diesel upgrade for the 1400 is no longer an option. He was willing to take it up the chain, but it does seem like the only diesel is the $8K offering. It is possible that an earlier model had a diesel that was a more reasonable upcharge. I was sort of holding out to hear from a guy who may be willing to sell his 1400 w/diesel but I sense his reluctance.

Here's where I'm at...of course I would love the 1620, but it adds $13K to the already $20K for the 1400 (which is $10K above the 1220CRZ I was originally going for). If I use all of my projected lumber as non-structural molding, siding, etc. or barn/shed structural (something building inspectors are more likely to rubber stamp) than I will need to turn it into molding. To do this I'm thinking I need a heavy duty planer/molder. My 12 inch DeWalt and 3HP router won't cut it. I am right now looking toward WoodMaster, the 712 or maybe the 721. This will add another $4-$7K depending on choices there. Then there's the tractor or skid steer.....but I guess I could rent that for a week or two if/as needed.

I really like milling, as even with my CSM I get excited. But realistically I don't see this as a business mostly because I'm a jack of all trades with many many hobbies, and some sawmillers make this their life's work. I don't know if there is room for another and I'm not thinking I want to compete with anyone having all the equipment, a $75K + mill, and the need to succeed due to their investments. I see this as yet another hobby and this hobby can provide raw materials for a few of my other hobbies as well, whether it be furniture grade lumber or building materials. I guess if I were to say I had one hobby, it would be self-sufficiency, so all of my "actual" hobbies revolve around this concept to some degree. The thought that makes all this make sense to me right now is that I have the land and expect to build on it. I can justify the costs in lieu of buying molding, cabinetry, and outbuilding construction. Plus I get to use the wood from the property and have an asset still worth 75+ percent of its cost. 

Would my cost/benefit still be as realistic if I upped my mill price alone to $35K? I don't know, but I am going to spend some more time creating a spreadsheet based upon retail lumber/cabinet/trim prices. I really do appreciate everybody's responses they have been super helpful

[Southside]

Well, if nothing else you have identified the sawdust rabbit hole before it sucked you in.  :D

[DocGP]

And as was stated earlier, I think that for the forseeable future, it seems that anything you get in to that you don't think fulfills your need, you can turn for next to no loss.

Good Luck
Dox

[biggkidd]

So I spoke with Matt at Timberking and it seems the diesel upgrade for the 1400 is no longer an option. He was willing to take it up the chain, but it does seem like the only diesel is the $8K offering. It is possible that an earlier model had a diesel that was a more reasonable upcharge. I was sort of holding out to hear from a guy who may be willing to sell his 1400 w/diesel but I sense his reluctance.

Here's where I'm at...of course I would love the 1620, but it adds $13K to the already $20K for the 1400 (which is $10K above the 1220CRZ I was originally going for). If I use all of my projected lumber as non-structural molding, siding, etc. or barn/shed structural (something building inspectors are more likely to rubber stamp) than I will need to turn it into molding. To do this I'm thinking I need a heavy duty planer/molder. My 12 inch DeWalt and 3HP router won't cut it. I am right now looking toward WoodMaster, the 712 or maybe the 721. This will add another $4-$7K depending on choices there. Then there's the tractor or skid steer.....but I guess I could rent that for a week or two if/as needed.

I really like milling, as even with my CSM I get excited. But realistically I don't see this as a business mostly because I'm a jack of all trades with many many hobbies, and some sawmillers make this their life's work. I don't know if there is room for another and I'm not thinking I want to compete with anyone having all the equipment, a $75K + mill, and the need to succeed due to their investments. I see this as yet another hobby and this hobby can provide raw materials for a few of my other hobbies as well, whether it be furniture grade lumber or building materials. I guess if I were to say I had one hobby, it would be self-sufficiency, so all of my "actual" hobbies revolve around this concept to some degree. The thought that makes all this make sense to me right now is that I have the land and expect to build on it. I can justify the costs in lieu of buying molding, cabinetry, and outbuilding construction. Plus I get to use the wood from the property and have an asset still worth 75+ percent of its cost.

Would my cost/benefit still be as realistic if I upped my mill price alone to $35K? I don't know, but I am going to spend some more time creating a spreadsheet based upon retail lumber/cabinet/trim prices. I really do appreciate everybody's responses they have been super helpful

Yep this right here in red!   I guess if I were to say I had one hobby, it would be self-sufficiency, so all of my "actual" hobbies revolve around this concept to some degree.

[PoginyHill]

I've notice most diesel options for a sawmill is rated a lower HP than the gas alternative. What diesel HP is equivalent in performance with a gas? For example 23HP gas is equal to about what diesel HP?

[scsmith42]

Personally I would spend $ on  hydraulics before I spent it on a diesel.  Much greater productivity gain IMO.

Also, if I were you I'd consider a used LT40H before buying new.  You'll get more for your money.

As someone that has both farm tractors and skid loaders, my preference would be a skid loader or compact track loader with a grapple rake and a set of pallet forks.  An 80 hp machine should be good for 3000 lbs of logs or lumber.

[scogar]

I'm definitely open to alterations based upon supply of used mills, but I am finding them to be scarce since lead time on new is so long. I haven't looked at the LT40H but I will at least take a look at what they have and see if anything pops up on the used market

[Magicman]

I haven't looked at the LT40H but I will at least take a look at what they have and see if anything pops up on the used market

There is one for sale here on the FF on the For Sale board:  LINK

I doubt that it will be available much longer.