Dunage ?

[longtime lurker]

Always remember the customer who cut you for 50 cents less just stole another customers supplier away. Someone now needs wood that didn't last week.

It's a cutthroat business, but it is a business and like any business you're going to go through a few  customers until you find the ones that you'll run with for years. Good business relationships are symbiotic, there's give and take and repeat customers are always something to value, even if it's just for the low grade stuff. Maybe even especially with the low grade stuff, the less invested in sales there the more profitable it gets.

S'why I operate the way I do. I may be somewhat envious of the margins involved with big slab tabletops or mantle pieces but give me a builder who needs wood for the next house renovation any day... I've already got the job it's just a matter of filling his order, those one off special pieces mean forging a new customer relationship with every sale.

[Bruno of NH]

I have the work 
The po was sent this morning 
It doesn't have to be done at once 
So many a month as the steel beams are made and shipped. 
The extra mill (if it happens) would be set up for 30ft , resaw attachment and beam planer. 
I have a long term commitment with 3 workers and 2 part timers.

[Bruno of NH]

I'm very surprised they even took my numbers because I'm not cheap. 
They are working with build back America money. 
The buyer likes my services and I think that keeps the higher ups happy.
They have very little help with lots of work. 
The city and state gave them lots to stay here. I don't know if they have to buy some local stuff to satisfy that agreement or not.

[moodnacreek]

I used to think I should have 2 mills so I could do inventory on one and go over and do custom on the other. Actually I have 2 mills but when you think about the waste piling up in 2 locations a larger faster mill with automated take away equipment, me thinks is the way to go.

[longtime lurker]

I don't ever see add a mill as requiring a contract, for the simple reason that for all of us the first time we added a mill we didn't have a contract and now we have experience and contacts and a reputation and a customer base as well. A contract would be nice, but some things you just have to take on faith, or you sense an opening or whatever.

Whether it's add a mill or buy a bigger faster one is more a question of versatility vs specialisation. There's a lot of efficiency in having a mill that's right for the product, but the mill you want to punch out ties and dunnage ain't ever ideal for cutting grade and vice versa. I've survived a lot of hiccups because my equipment was reasonably flexible and as a business we do a little of everything; but this here is my next year question, do I head for a bigger faster hamster wheel or have two different ones.

The biggest issue though is labour. Not just grunt labour but skilled guys who can do what you do. I'm struggling with this so hard.. I'm exhausted and spread so thin you could poke holes in me... I'm running from one skilled task to the next and haven't got time to teach anyone the skills to take some pressure off me and it's killing me.

Somewhere in all the value adding spiel they forgot to mention that.... That with having the saws and the kilns and moulders and the retail margins that I'd have a lot of expensive toys that required hard to find industry professionals to operate. The margins might suck in ties or dunnage or selling at wholesale but yanno... it's a simple one step product and you can get along with it at speed with dumb labour and a pile of logs and just do the job and get paid for it. 

Pluses and minuses either way, and we all get to design our own hamster cage

[Southside]

Another critical factor in that would be equity. Are you buying the new tool with cash or does a payment book accompany it? 

If the latter, then I want a contract for sure. 

[teakwood]

How do orders work where you are guys? You get a verbal ok for a order and at the pick up day you hope they show and pay?

That would not work here, I always charge something like 25-50% up front, before I even start working. Unless it's a long time customer 

[moodnacreek]

I have met more than one older sawmill operator who had been a grade hardwood operation and gone to low grade work. I suppose the competition for good logs, especially along 87 to Montreal or 90 to the big hardwood mills in n.y.s.      Don't anyone be ashamed of sawing junk if you can sell it. It's nice to know how to grade saw a log and have your last board the same thickness as the others but this can have little to do with staying in business .

[230Dforme]

Good evening Bruno
The members are for the most part, trying to tell 
you the same thing, very diplomatically.
And I believe they all admire your perseverance,
and truly wish you are successful in your pursuits. 
Too much reliance on hired help is a dangerous thing

Nuff said

[Old Greenhorn]

I don't know if I can agree with that. Bruno has a PO in hand, what we always called a 'blanket PO' which outlines the total quantity of the order and the delivery schedule, as well as the price to be paid and when. In essence, this IS a contract to purchase (cancellation issues aside).
 From a business owners point of view, this is firm ground to stand on. 
 As far as depending on your personnel, that is always a crapshoot and the only person in a position to make that decision is Bruno, not any of us. Others folks can relate their experiences in such situations but only Bruno knows for sure. He should know his people by now I would think. This is part of being an owner/operator and it's never easy.

 Bruno, it's too bad they don't make an LX25 with a big engine and a power feed. That might be just want you want, but I don't know. We have one we bought over a year ago just for long timbers and haven't had time to assemble it and set it up yet. We need to put in a pad. At least with that one, the investment is low and it's simple, so maybe one of your guys would become an expert with it. Just thinking out loud. Good luck with whatever you decide.
 

[Bruno of NH]

I won't be buying anything with credit. 
Lessons learned on that rt.
The order is spread over 4 months on the line of the other Dunnage I cut for them.

[stavebuyer]

You are making all the right moves. Once you have employees having 2 or 6 is about the same amount of headache. Build it and they will come is speculation but expansion to cover increased orders from a current customer is about as sound a foundation as one could hope for. Yeah, it's tough but you have proven to be tougher.

I made a living for many years working by myself. The few years I ran three mills and lumber grading operations with 14 employees basically put in me in a position to retire early. Everyone told me I couldn't make it sawing ties on a Wood-Mizer. Heck they still do. Whatever.  :

The downside is running a real sawmill is nothing like sawing. Your "real job" won't be in the saw cab. It was a treat to "have to saw" because we were short-handed. I built it, prospered, and auctioned it off as I don't have the temperament to work for petty government regulators and insurance auditors. I am sure you will be successful enough to have that as option too.

Looking forward to watching you build your dream.  8) 8)

[brianJ]

Just got a new donnage order from the Steel Bridge company
(40) 6x6x12
(600)6×6×10
For after the first of the year
I might have to add another mill
I have some ideas on the mill with added options to do other things with it.

I bet you have already considered buying & sourcing this any logs as well as just running your current sawmill a little extra?
As for labor I am unlike every one else here.   Labor should not be a problem.   The problem is affording capable people.

[Brad_bb]

I think there is more dead standing Ash that has been standing dead too long.  With that, you're going to see more Ash with Bacterial rot.  Such material will lose strength across the grain, will crush, and may even break across the grain.  It's not hard to imagine and unscrupulous person not discarding such Ash but rather millng and selling it to them.  That would put a bad taste in their mouth for Ash.  It would make them wary in buying any.  You may be ethical and recognize such compromised Ash and separate it, but they don't want to take the chance.  I think soon we don't have much viable Ash to mill.  I like Ash and I'd like to build up a good whack of it while I can for any future projects.  I mentioned here on FF once before that I think Ash will still be around, but won't be a good viable wood.  I am no tree scientist, but I have observed here at my place that after the massive infestation of EAB, they killed 90 plus percent of the Ash.  I took the dead standing down on my property and milled them.  I noticed this year (with now a much lower EAB population due to less food) that the young trees 4-7 in dbh appeared to survive this year. They showed evidence of EAB damage, but the trees were able to heal over the damage and keep up with it.  If this is a trend that continues, and the Ash continue to survive, that is good, but the yearly damage will affect the quality of the wood.  Additionally, I don't think the Ash population will ever come back to percentage of trees that it was.  Again this is anecdotal and my opinion based on what I've observed.