Just wanna bounce this joinery off ya'll

[Don P]

Brad, that is certainly your call, I would not use less than residential floor loading.
Then,

Unless I'm missing something there has been no check of those tie beams before or after mortising.

[Don P]

Putting some numbers to it... rational design and all. You've pondered the end connections. Let's see what that mortised tie can do in bending.

I found the tie beam span in the first post and enough info in the sketches to i think check that as a residential load, yes, a good sketch is worth a thousand words.

It looks like the tie is spanning roughly 11'.
Half the 10' joist span on the right of the tie, 5', and half of the 12' span on the left of the tie, 6', is supported by the tie. Tributary area is then 11' x 11' x (40psf LL + 10psf DL). 6050 lbs total load, 1210 lbs DL

Using this calc;
Design for Bending (forestryforum.com)

The minimum bearing for the joists by code is 1.5" so checking a #2 DougFir B&S 5" x 14" ... and it looks like you can put in code minimum bearing for the joists.

If they were notched with a "fire cut", essentially creating a tusk tenon, you would be approaching an 8x14 for design strength instead of the 5x14 that drop in joists create. Whether that can be assembled in there is another matter to consider but a little creative thinking.

It passes residential with drop ins. It can be much stronger with a minimum more work. I would do 2x10's even if closer spaced to leave more wood under the joist pocket. They are another check and you can adjust spacing, someone mentioned 12" which would help with subfloor span and wheel loads.

What do we know about a point load Vs a uniformly distributed load... A point load at midspan produces twice the bending moment compared to a uniformly spread out load. In this case, you're good for 2 tons of uniformly distributed treasure or about a ton rolling around if there is nothing else loading that area.

[Brad_bb]

@Don P What is a "Fire cut"?  Do you have a pic or sketch?  I know what a tusk tenon is but don't know what a fire cut is on a 2x10 or 2x12?  If it is some kind of tusk tenon, assembly could be tricky as you mentioned.

Thanks for the input.

[Don P]

Go back a page to that heavy timber link from awc, it is another industrial framing joint. Pg 10 fig D2 (yup, I got 20 tabs open  :D)
You are not using it for fire but because that or a tusk tenon preserves the top strap of the tie beam.

If you decide to go that way, regroup and decide if you want to design the floor for higher possible load. If you use drop in joists you're limited to around residential loading... and there wouldn't be much reason to use joists heavier than that. Check, but I suspect 2x8's would work, which matches the end 8x8's. (depending on species, grade, yada)

If you go with joinery that preserves a stronger tie, then, I would make the joists capacity match the ties strength. Couple of ways to go here.

Edit:
I hit google for a pic, and got one  :D
Firecut joists in masonry in Timber Framing/Log construction (forestryforum.com)

[jaciausa]

I should have looked more closely at your materials you have acquired. What I have suggested would not work unless you had 2 more of the 8x14 DFs to match! I was trying to eliminate the 3-way connection to the 8x8 posts. The 8x8's I suggested at the top of the 3 bents at the ceiling height would tie the tops of your bent posts. If you smacked the bottoms, or the top of the bent from front or back with equipment, it would eliminate the lever that is not tied together at top. I currently am dismantling a barn that has many problems. One of them is the removal of a tie at the top of bent (actually part of the original bent) to use a hay trolley without interference, (kind of like yours will be without a tie at ceiling). The only tie in barn is 9ft up on the 20ft tall post. It now is just an H bent, partial bent? It has survived many years, since 1910.  I plan on putting it back up. I will have to saw a lot of replacement timbers, braces to tie it back together. I will be adding a floor just like your storage area.
Like you, I want to be able to make it look nice by contrasting the different parts. Having them all dried down the same without a vacuum kiln would be impossible timewise. Working with the green and the dry timbers will be a challenge.
 Saw 3- 8x14 WO for front, use 3- 8x14 DF rear, put 1 DF away. Saw and dry full 2x12 WO joists 12" centers, 2"x6 t x g flooring hardwood pegged to joists. Use 8"x8" ties at ceiling as needed. 
 
 

[Brad_bb]

Ok, I'm warming to the idea of the firecut ends.  How about 2" depth into the DF beam giving a 1.5"x2"=3 square inch bearing area on each end?  I suppose those angled pockets could be cut with a router jig.  With those pockets in the Doug Fir beam, would you reduce the beam size at all for calculation purposes?  

That is my first time looking at the Design for bending calculator.  Did you make that Don?  So I figure the Doug fir beam will be shouldered into the post (as seen in the original post sketch) for a 1"deep bearing surface so roughly 8 square inches of bearing on each end.  So when I look at the calculator, it looks like to get an idea of the load it can handle, I can increase the loading as long as the bearing area is not exceeded and everything passes?  Am I looking at that correctly?

jaciausa, as I plan to extend the posts up 4-6 feet above the floor, I will put tenons on top for a plate on each side.  I may not put the plate on right away, depends on when I can get the material and time to cut the plates and do scarfs.  The frame would then be ready for a roof system if it were ever repurposed someday.

Don, I saw you use the abbreviation "BO".  I wasn't sure what that was, then I saw you use it in another recent post.  I'm thinking it means builder/owner?

[Don P]

If you can avoid damaging a 2" strap of wood along each edge I would not reduce the beam dimensions in the calc. Similar to an I beam, the middle web of the beam is mainly holding the edges as far apart as possible and taking care of the horizontal shear. In other words, make the diagonal exit the beam 2" below the top edge. I don't think a router is going to do it, I suspect this is a sharp chisel job, maybe a little drilling, alas.

The lower edge does become an issue as the bottom strap gets thinner, as the notch lowers from the neutral axis, and as the load increases. I can't give you anything hard and fast but the stress begins to shift from shear under the joists to tension perpendicular to grain across the entire bottom strap. That is why I was leaning away from 2x12's, to leave more meat under the joist and push the bottom of the mortise up towards the neutral axis.

As folks have.... guessed... at various member dimensions, I guess what I'm hoping to show is that the parts should be sized together, no one part needs to be, nor should be, grossly over or undersized. Parts should work together in concert.

 That calc is one of a series. The math equations are fairly simple, APA's DCA6 or any engineering text. The real trick is knowing which engineering equation models the situation at hand. That was one for heavy timbers 5x5 and larger. The joists would use one for dimensional lumber here;
Dimensional Lumber Calc
"Lumber" and "heavy timber", of the same species and grade, will have different design values, do not mix up the calcs.

This is the overall list of beam and column calcs (the red toolbox, bottom of the left column)
ToolBox (forestryforum.com)

It sounds like you are understanding correctly, see what the beam can handle in bending, then check the allowable compression perp to grain against the design compression on the bearing area at the posts. Following that to ground, there are column capacity calcs in the list as well ut this sounds easier than that. An 8' tall 8x8 post does not fail by buckling, it dies by crushing. If the beam passed compression perp, the short post passes.

BO is Builiding Official, head inspector. You'll also see AHJ sometimes in those conversations, Authority Having Jurisdiction, generally the BO but can be the Fire Chief, the County Admin, or some other bear.

[jaciausa]

Brad, with anything over 8" for the floor joists they will be below the8x8 tie beam you have, as viewed from sides. To me that would not look the best. Giving more meat on the DF beam under the joists is something others have said is needed. Maybe a 4x8 joist (different centers) or 2x8's that would calc out would be best?
You do not have the joist materials, so you might be able to get some dry timbers from a floor from your barnwood person. Some of the barns have logs for joists. I have seen many of these burnt or sold for very little. They look ugly to most, but I planned the top of a hand hewn- on top only, white oak log joist the other day and it was perfect. From the rings and size, they must be the tops out of the 12x12 Hand hewn white oak timbers in barn. Hope this helps. Tim