Any Virginia sawmill owners here?

[SineWave]

Hey, all,

Longtime lurker here, I've been wanting to build or buy a bandsaw mill for years, and now I'm getting ready to retire and realize that I should probably just buy a mill rather than wasting another 20 years messing around with making one.

I was thinking about something along the lines of the TimberKing 1400 with the bare-bones hydraulics. I figure if I needed to, I could add additional hydraulics later.

This mill would be mainly for personal use, cutting up trees from my own land, but I might also want to sell a little wood and/or cut wood "for hire" for other people.

My questions are regarding the situation here in Virginia. We have "personal property taxes" on things like cars, motorcycles, boats, boat trailers and the like that we pay every year. I believe that Virginia also taxes residents every year on the value of machinery used to make money.

So what I'm wondering is, if I buy a trailer-mounted bandsaw mill:
1. Will I need to DMV-tag the trailer that the sawmill is built upon in Virginia? and if so
2. Will I need to pay annual personal property tax on it? and if so
3. Will that personal property tax be based on the value of the trailer alone, or the value of the trailer PLUS the value of the sawmill (in other words, the value of the entire rig)?
4. Finally, does anyone know whether I will ALSO have an annual tax I have to pay on the value of the machinery, under the "you must pay an annual tax on all moneymaking machinery you own" provision in Virginia?

Thanks in advance for any advice.

Jeff

[WV Sawmiller]

  Good luck on your plans. I hope it all works out well. I'm betting you get replies from other VA mill owners.

    Here in WV, and a lot of states, a mobile mill is considered a piece of mobile equipment and no tag is required. I pay property tax here in WV on the value of the mill every year.

    I still suggest you call your DMV and local tax office to get the straight scoop.

[rusticretreater]

https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=7979.0

The above link has info from another Virginia sawmiller who is mobile and provides a lot of good info, but VERIFY as things change.  I own trailers and also a sawmill but my mill is stationary.

In my point of view, a great deal depends on how you structure your business.  Where it gets complicated is use tax, farm use and business use. 

But in Virginia if the trailer can exist on its own it must be tagged.  Over a certain size and weight class it also must be annually inspected.

I have a landscaping trailer that has a permanent tag and a car hauler/logging trailer that must be inspected.  There are no annual registration stickers however.  I pay property tax on both trailers.

 

[Jeff]

Ya know, I need to quit looking at topics for signs of trouble.  I doubletook 3 times the title thinking why the hell is someone looking for a virgin sawmill owner.  I gotta quit skim reading.

[rusticretreater]

This is taking the thread down a different path but....

When messaging or emailing with a comely lass I would often say I'm a Virginia boy.  It often led to some fun conversations and um....  And I could always accuse them of having a dirty mind.  

[rusticretreater]

Oh and you can use the forum search page to look for other members in Virginia.  It doesn't work right but you will find some folks.

Under the members menu selection above, click search for members.  On the next page type either VA or Virginia in the search box, unselect search by name, select search by geographic location and hit the enter key.

For some reason if you type VA, you will get folks with state abbreviations that end in A such as PA, CA, IA.  So you have to view each profile.  But this is also helpful in that after you verify it is a person in Virginia, you can look at the bottom date-last active to see if they might respond to a message.  You can see the sawmill they are using and their bio info might say mobile sawmiller.

If you type Virginia, you will get West Virginia entries too.  But I noticed that your ID, SineWave was not in my search results even though you list your location as East Virginia.  So you might miss a few folks. But its something if you want to try to gather as much info as possible.

[TreefarmerNN]

I'm also in eastern Virginia so perhaps some of this is relevant.  Replies in bold.

So what I'm wondering is, if I buy a trailer-mounted bandsaw mill:
1. Will I need to DMV-tag the trailer that the sawmill is built upon in Virginia? and if so
You can possibly have the trailer go as an unlicensed or farm use vehicle.  The rules for those changed as of July.  Frankly, if the mill/trailer doesn't have brakes, I'd buy a lifetime trailer tag and be done with it.


2. Will I need to pay annual personal property tax on it? and if so

If your locality knows about the mill, you will pay PP tax each year on the value of the mill and trailer.

3. Will that personal property tax be based on the value of the trailer alone, or the value of the trailer PLUS the value of the sawmill (in other words, the value of the entire rig)?

4. Finally, does anyone know whether I will ALSO have an annual tax I have to pay on the value of the machinery, under the "you must pay an annual tax on all moneymaking machinery you own" provision in Virginia?

The personal property tax or machinery tax is county specific.  Most localities charge a machinery and tools tax but the rate differs by locality. Your county website may list it or the local treasurer's office and/or Commissioner of the Revenue office will know for sure.

[Magicman]

I'm also in eastern Virginia so perhaps some of this is relevant.

Then why do you not list it in your profile??

[Jeff]

The seatch is weird. It does what it does.  

[SineWave]

Thanks very much for your replies, fellas. I appreciate the help.

TreefarmerNN, I'm guessing from your username Newport News? I'm over on the ES.
I was tempted at first to do what WV Sawmiller said, and just call the county people and ask...but then I saw your post saying that "if they know about the mill, they will PP tax it" .. so I hesitate. And since (I believe) that the boat numbering people in Richmond tell the county tax people about boats and trailers, I also wonder whether the DMV folks in Richmond will also tell the local tax collectors if I buy a permanent tag for the trailer ... seems like somebody's always got his hand out here in Virginia...it bugs me.

And then I wonder about how many highway men with their hands out I'll run into between here and Missouri towing a brand-new sawmill back home...

Not trying to cheat anyone out of their taxes, just trying to get down the road without going broke...my theory has always been "better to beg forgiveness than to ask permission" ... but if the highwaymen get their way, there'll be nothing left for the buzzards except sawdust...

I appreciate all your help. Thank you all for your replies.

[WV Sawmiller]

   I'd (Which is what I did) just call and say "I am thinking about getting a mill and need to know about tags and taxes to help make up my mind."

   In my case I did notify the tax folks as I am a business and needed to register accordingly.

[Raym]

So what I'm wondering is, if I buy a trailer-mounted bandsaw mill:
1. Will I need to DMV-tag the trailer that the sawmill is built upon in Virginia? and if so
2. Will I need to pay annual personal property tax on it? and if so
3. Will that personal property tax be based on the value of the trailer alone, or the value of the trailer PLUS the value of the sawmill (in other words, the value of the entire rig)?
4. Finally, does anyone know whether I will ALSO have an annual tax I have to pay on the value of the machinery, under the "you must pay an annual tax on all moneymaking machinery you own" provision in Virginia?

I am going to answer as to "what I think I know"

In Virginia, Towable equipment does not need to be registered or in need of tags. For example towing an air compressor. A sawmill is not a trailer but it is a piece of equipment.

If it is for a business deduction (meaning you deduct the cost of the equipment to offset business income) then you will need to file and pay business personal property tax. Otherwise I would "beg forgiveness" however since there is no registration there is no way for the localities to tax.

If it is indeed a business deduction, then the business personal property tax is calculated on the value of the property, meaning the mill. I'm sure different counties have different deprecating schedules but the value of said equipment goes down each year based on the purchase price. However it is based on a deprecating schedule and not the value of the equipment.

For example, I purchased my mill in 2014 for 40,000.00. Even though the value of the mill went up over the years (sold it for 20% more than I paid when I sold in 2022) I was only paying business personal property based on about 30% of the 40,000.

Hope this helps.