How much saw do I need?

[ComputerUser]

I am a non-professional saw user who has been able to meet his needs, up until recently, with Stihl 290s (20", RS chain) and Echo top handle saws.  These saws have always been adequate (if just barely) for cutting most of the smaller stuff we have in the Detroit suburbs, though they sure take their time about it.  However, there are some trees at the family cemetery that I will need to remove to in the coming years that will require a bit more saw than the 290, but I'm not sure how much more saw I'll need.  A number of the trees are pre-Civil War oaks; dead and completely dry elms; and a couple are extremely wide multi-trunk maples.  Trunks exceed four feet in many instances, and sometimes by a good margin at ground level.  In case it helps in answering my question, some of these trees I will be dropping myself, others I will have someone else drop and I will finish and dispose of them once they're on the ground.

My question is this: how much saw do I need to make this task go quickly and safely?  By quickly I mean I won't have to struggle on these trees the way I do with the 290 in anything larger than 18".  I'd prefer to stay with Stihl, as we have excellent dealer support here and the difference in cost between Stihl and Husky or Dolmar really isn't an issue.  I am also looking for an off-the-shelf product, so modded saws are out for now.  I am assuming that a MS440 would be the absolute minimum for trees of this size, and that it would probably make for a good all-around saw for me, being roughly the same weight as the 290, but with a lot more guts.  Would I be better off going with the MS 460 or 660 instead, considering the size of these trees? 

Any input from folks familiar with dealing with trees of this size would be greatly appreciated!

[fishhuntcutwood]

I think you'd be fine with a 460 Mag.  It will pull a 28" bar through that wood, and you could probably even get by with a 32 in hard wood.  If you want to put any doubts aside, go with the 660.  I can speak to you from a softwoods point of view.  Most professional timber fallers out here use 440's with 28's and 460's with 28, 32, and sometimes a 36.  We're talking WRC, fir, spruce, hemlock and alder.  But you're absolutely right about the 440 being a better all around saw, and it'd do the work, but not with the ease of the other two saws.  Another consideration is that if trees of this size are going to be a one time thing, you might think of renting the saw you need for the job.  But if you're looking for a bigger saw for your arsenal, then the 440 or 460 would be a good choice.  I've got a 460, and love it, but it's a bit large for an all around saw, especially when I can easily get the same job done with a 440, which is why I'm going to go buy one this week...and keep the 460 of course!  So in conclusion-for a saw that will work and work as an all arounder-440.  For a saw that will make easy work of what you're talking about-460, and if you want to blow the tree away, and not think twice about it-660.

Just my opinion, and you'll get plenty more on this thread.  Let us know what you choose!

Jeff

[StihlDoc]

I would recommend the MS 440 with a 28" bar. It may be a little underpowered for the really large stuff you mention but should be more than adequate for the majority of what you will be doing. When you are finished with the big stuff it will still be a well balanced, lightweight saw for your "normal" cutting. If you have a large amount of bigger trees and anticipate more cutting of the same sometime in the future, go with the MS 460 and a 32" bar or, as fishhuntcutwood suggests, rent an MS 660 for bucking the larger diameter logs.

[jjmk98k]

Sounds like you're doing it the way I should have...

I bought a Husqvarna 141 thinking "thats all i need for my small time firewood cutting"

after a month i realized it was underpowered for my liking.....

bought a Husqvarna 350.... a year later, not enough power.


bought a 372XP last month, set for life!

Buy the most powerful saw you can realistically use and you'll be happy.

[timberjack240]

computer user
3 words buy a husky  ;D no im just kiddin id go with somethin with a little power and a bigger bar then 18in with the big oaks and elms

[Al_Smith]

 Well sir,I don't own anything newer than about the mid 80's.As I understand it,the 046/ms46o Stihl is the same cubic inch and same hp as my older 048 Stihls.With that as a reference,I can assure you they will pull a 32" bar in that hard oak.I've done it many times.While they are a bit pricey,the 046/ms460,as I understand it,has a much sturdier crankcase than the previous 048.This size saw,in my opinion,is a good,all around size.You could,for example,put on a 32" bar,with a seven tooth rim,and cut all but the largest trees,with ease.Take that longer bar off,and put on a twenty inch and cut firewood to your hearts contend .I can't make much comment on the Huskys and Dolmars of this size group,as I've never owned one,but the people who have them,seem pleased.

[jokers]

Either the 440 or 460 will handle the bigger trees with alot more ease than your 029. Will you be keeping the 029?

A couple of ways to look at this are keeping the 029(~13#) saw and then opting for a 460 which weighs another pound or so but which also has significantly more torque and horsepower, or sell the 029 and get the 440 which weighs about the same as the 029 but also has more torque and horsepower.

I`d opt for keeping the 029 and getting the 460 to compliment it. Let me explain.

The 460 has a significant quantity more torque than the 440 in my experience. In smaller wood, say 2'dbh, the 440 and 460 will be nearly identical, but in 4'dbh the 460 will rule. The downside to the 460 is that the additional weight is also noticeable if you are doing alot of limbing. The lighter 029 could fill in as your limbing saw.

It`s also nice to have another saw available, as you would if you keep the 029.

Russ

[ComputerUser]

Thanks, everybody, for the input.  Like so many folks, I bought the 290 because they wa so inexpensive and was nearly enough saw for what I considered "big" at the time.  Sure, it was slow in some of the big stuff, but it would get it done eventually.  Now I'm up against some stuff that it simply can't do with a 290  and that, at the time I bought the 290 I never would have considered handling myself.  I think what I will end up doing is getting a 460 when the time comes, unless a really, really good deal on a 660 pops up.  It sounds like the 460 will give me enough saw to handle the cemetery trees and anything else I can reasonably expect to find in Michigan.  If I was starting over and buying a do-it-all saw, I'd surely go with the 440, which would be fine for how infrequently I encounter big trees, but I am planning on keeping the 290, as it does most everything I need done most of the time and is in excellent shape.

I figure if I'm going to bother to get a bigger saw, it might as well be a goodly bit bigger.  I already bought one saw that was less saw than I could legitimately use when I bought it, so there's no sense doing it again with a 440 this time around.

Thanks again, guys!

[ComputerUser]

Update:

After coming across a Dolmar dealer who lives relatively nearby (TonyM at Arboristsite.com), I went the red route - Dolmar 7900.  A couple more recent interactions with local Stihl dealers left me somewhat turned-off of dealing with them, so my "must be stihl" requirement went out the window.

So far, I am very impressed with the saw.  For the moment, I'm running Carlton chisel chain on a 20" Windsor Speed Tip bar, but before long I'll pick up something larger (28" or 32", full-skip chain) to have around for the big work.  The nicest thing is that the saw balances better than my 290, weighs roughly the same, and has a heck of a lot more ooph.  Plus, the price was great, so it seems like this may be an ideal all-around saw for my purposes - light enough for regular use, and big enough to be able to handle those few big trees that come up.

[pallis]

Ha!  This was my first time to read this thread, and I was going to recommend the 7900.  You made a smart choice. 

Enjoy!

[stihlman01mt]

Anything out to a 32" bar can be run very adequately with an MS460, but know several guys who run 35" bars on their MS460's

[oldsaw]

Beware of power addiction.  I'm still kicking the idea around of getting an 18" bar for my 066.  I don't have the patience to wait for my old Homie to cut through stuff anymore.  Later in the day, the lighter Homie Super XL is my friend, but earlier in the day, power wins.  My "beater" bar is a 24" for the 066.

You will pull out your big saw more often than you think.  I do.

[leweee]

Beware of power addiction.  I'm still kicking the idea around of getting an 18" bar for my 066.

Yes Miss Daisy We BE Honken :D :D :D