what is the world coming to

[spencerhenry]

once again being in the land of people who want to save the world, i am amazed at their stupidity. i was working on a deal to cut and mill all of the standing DEAD on 218 acres. never actually got so far as to see the property, but know it was all coniferous. judging by the location and elevation, i would guess that it was doug-fir and ponderosa, and maybe some alpine fir. the owner of the property wanted to remove all of the dead, and use the lumber for on site buildings and improvements. sounds like a good plan, and a good job. cut, skid, mill. here is the problem, the land is in pitkin county colorado (aspen area). the very wise county commissioners have decided that property owners cannot cut ANY trees, live or dead. the only trees they can cut are in the "building envelope", no stipulation as to size, species, or anything else. the building envelope represents the area where the owner is "allowed" to build. i have cut trees in pitkin county before, so i know it is possible, but that was a special case.
i guess they would rather the lumber come from live trees cut in the pacific northwest, trucked all the way here, going  through several hands first. maybe they think that the eventual forest fire is GOOD???

[Frickman]

I've run into similar situations here spencerhenry, and not in "upscale" areas like aspen either. I've worked in relatively poor, very rural townships where the local government is dead set against any trees being cut for any reason. There are two things at work here. First, many people in this country don't realize where lumber, paper, food, steel, etc. come from. They think milk comes from a store. Alot of zealous environmentalists fall into this category. Second, many, many folks are socialists at heart, You can own property, but they control it. That's what socialism is, private ownership with government control. And they're the government. Whether they're too lazy to go and work their way through this world, or they feed their ego with power, they want to tell you what to do. Alot of zealous environmentalists fall into the second categore as well. The ironic thing, as you suggested, is that the most environmentally sound, and also practical, thing to do is mill this dead timber for use on site.

[Frank_Pender]

Spence, even here in the Peoples Republic of Oregon, you have those kind of jerk.   I believe that the Supreme Court has recently dealt with such issues as this kind of taking.   I guess that we will soon be before them on such things as the right to farm your land as well as remove trees for safety and fire, beyond the house siteing.  It just makes me blue with rage over this kind of taking of ones personal property and use thereof. :( :( :( :( >:( >:( >:(

[Part_Timer]

I'm not suprised.  They can take your land for anything they want why not tell ya what ya can and can't do with it too.

[thedeeredude]

And I didn't want to move to Canada because I thought they had less freedom. 

[Phorester]

Isn't it ironic that communities will ban forest and wildlife management activities, which will enhance the resource they wish to "protect",  but will pass laws and ordnances that favor subdividing these same areas into house lots. 

They are actually favoring development over the environment, but have no clue what they are doing.

[Frickman]

Phorester,

Around here most of the local municipalities are pushing subdividing and developing the land. They see farmland and timberland as "vacant and nonproducing" and are eyeing increased tax revenues from developed properties. The developed properties will demand more government services so its a break-even deal in my opinion, unless you favor big government.

They do this until a place is mostly built up and the new residents demand that "greenspace" be preserved. So someone who held onto their land gets any potential development value taken away when they're not allowed to build on their land. Alot of folks I've run across have the idea of"I got in and now slam the door on anybody else." In the next county over there is a housing development that has been going up in phases for fifteen years or so. One of the first homebuyers is now up in arms because the developer is planning to finish out the development with condos right behind this fellows house. What was this guy thinking when he bought his house? It's in a planned community, and now he's getting neighbors he should have known he'd be getting when he first bought into the deal.

[SAW MILLER]

  It's a free country .........As long as you do what they tell ya!! :-[

[Ron Wenrich]

Unfortunately, no one has gotten it right.  Your throwing the blame on someone else. 

Here's a story that was related to me.  A group of people went to see their legislator about some issue.  There were several in their group.  The legislator was pleasant and polite and listened to their grievances.

He then said "You know you have no power."  That took the group back pretty good, since they represented the average voter.  He explained how they had no money to give, so their grievance wouldn't carry as much weight as someone bearing gifts of gold.

That's how the system works.  It isn't some socialistic plot or some other power scheme.  Its all about money.  Those with the gold rules.  That is the way the system now works.  The forest resource community has no gold and when given free reigns will tear up the land just as quick as those developers.  That is why SFI was developed in the feeble attempt of self regulation. 

And the next time you go to the ballot box, you will dutifully pull the lever that will put the same guys in power over you. 

[OneWithWood]

Amen, Ron.  Amen.

[Frank_Pender]

We just had a County judge tell better than 60% of the people of Oregon that what they vote into law was unconstitutional.   The issue was brought to the court by 1000 Friends.  The issues passed  was Measure 37.  The measure was dealing with the issue of land use regulations haveing been changed on folks that had already had been zoned in a particular way and then the government regulators come along and make changes causeing you major financial losses or hardship.