What grade logs make sence to saw ?

[Ohio_Bill]

I have been sawing mostly low grade hard wood logs which consist of oak, hickory, elm , and soft maple. I am able to purchase these logs standing from a local land owner , by harvesting these call trees and leaving the higher grade trees in his timber stand.I use directional falling techniques  and practice proper soil managment.  For doing this I am able to purchase the logs at  10 cents a bf.  There is a tie plant about 30 miles from me so I cut most of the logs into ties which  are bringing about 40 cent a bf.
The lumber that comes off the outside of the tie cants I grade and am able to sell  the FAS and number 1 Common to a local guy that has a kiln. The low grade boards I sell to people that like to build things that are 105 inches long . :D
My Question is would I be better off buying higher grade logs even though I would have to pay a lot more for them ?

[Tom]

Bill, do you mean that you sell to 105" long people? :D Man, you're in a rough neighborhood. :D

Sounds like you've carved out a pretty good niche to me.  It's hard to find that little something that keeps your mill alive, some folks never do.  Now that you have the niche, you need to work the fool out of it.  It's not just that one supplier that you need to depend upon, find other trees.  

Diversification is good to a point, but you can't let it interfere with your primary niche.  That is the job that everybody will know you by.    

It sounds to me like you have the best of both worlds now.  You are getting some high grade from the bad logs and paying for your business with the rest.  Do you have a market for high grade stuff in bulk?  

I will defer to Ron Wenrich on the dollars side of this because that's what he does best.  But, don't butcher the brood sow.

[sawyerkirk]

Seems to me that if your pulling FAS off tie logs, at .10/bf, I'd keep on that if your buying on doyle scale, your probably getting the side lumber free. Higher grade logs are always nicer to saw, but the profit margin tends to drop, BUT, I guess it would depend on what your going to have to pay for the higher grade logs.

[Greg]

I have been sawing mostly low grade hard wood logs which consist of oak, hickory, elm , and soft maple. I am able to purchase these logs standing from a local land owner , by harvesting these call trees and leaving the higher grade trees in his timber stand.I use directional falling techniques  and practice proper soil managment.  For doing this I am able to purchase the logs at  10 cents a bf.  There is a tie plant about 30 miles from me so I cut most of the logs into ties which  are bringing about 40 cent a bf.

Ohio Bill,

The "ties" you cut for the local plant, I assume these are railroad ties that are dipped in creosote?

So I guess standard railroad ties are 105". What dimensions are they - I'm guessing 6x6 or so??

How about leaving those boards on some of your cants and selling me a few 8x8s ;-)

As a weekend timberframer building smaller outbuildings I am very interested in lower grade logs used to make structural timbers. Clear FAS lumber is not necessarily that important for my application. In fact its a waste of $$$ for me and potential customers.

As long its not riddled with shakes and the knots leave some room for my joinery - I'll use it. Especially, at 0.40 a bf.

BTB, I'm in SW Ohio.
Greg

[Ron Wenrich]

You should be commended on doing excellent restorative forestry work.  I'd like to see more guys like you in the woods.  

On the mill side, profit = lumber price - log costs - sawing costs.  Buying higher quality logs will give you a higher lumber price, but it comes at the higher cost of the logs.  Also, your sawing costs will be more, since you will have to handle bigger logs and making more cuts per log.  That may put your sawing costs up.  You need a sharp pencil to figure the difference.

When you get into the high grade end, you will have a lot more competition for the logs.  How deep are your pockets?

Take a grading short course.  There are more grades than FAS and 1 Common.  There is more than 4/4 for thickness.  

Ties have taken another 50 cent increase this week.  Right now, I'm getting $20.50/tie for oak.  That comes to $466/Mbf.  That means I can leave 1Com on the tie, if I have to.  A lot depends on the log.

If you can handle them, switch ties can be better than cross ties.  Bridge timbers are even better, but the market is soft right now.

Greg

RR ties can be 6x8, 7x8, 7x9.  I've cut flange timbers, which are 6x10, as well as plenty of bridge timbers.  They run from 6x9 to 8x17.  You can't touch the price.

There is a company that makes timber frame houses up around Mansfield, PA.  They only wanted 7 x 9 red oak or pine.  The oak was to be knot free.