Anyone have trouble with flooring customers

[KjBarnwood]

I am thinking about turning some of the wormy chestnut I have into flooring for a customer.  I am not set up with a moulder or kiln, but a local cabinet shop has both, and will do the milling and dry and sterilize the wood for me.

I was just wondering what kind of issues do you guys that mill flooring have to deal with, as far as customers and contractors.  I know if I ask my wholesale buyers they will give me nightmare stories, mostly because they want the chestnut and no competition. 

Thanks,
     Keith

[woodmills1]

make sure they order enough to cover the over run.  My first few flooring jobs I had to go back and make more.  As the pieces get cut and installed a lot is left on the floor.

[Larry]

Why don't you sell your customer the wood and point him to the local cabinet shop?  Most issues are gonna popup because of machining or the way it is dried.

[ellmoe]

   Unless you mark-up the drying and dressing Larry's advice is sound. If you sell finished flooring be sure to have your customer sign a statement that they know they must allow the wood to acclimate to the house before installing.

Mark

[KjBarnwood]

Thanks guys.  I do plan on having them plan for 10% extra for scrap.  I am marking up the milling cost and drying.

I guess I am just trying to avoid any problems what so ever from very picky customers, or not so experienced installers.

Another question; What kind of tolerences should good flooring hold to?

[woodmills1]

When you figure the 10% make sure to remember the coverage lost in the tounge and groove.  When I do my own flooring I run 20% more.

[BlueRidge]

I install/sand/finish wood floors - completly seperate from the sawmills-

I will say depending on what grade the wood is and WHO is installing it you may need more % for waste. When I'm not ordering the wood or installing it, I tell cutomers 15% waste. I personally (on an average job) get away with 7% of corse this is my waste on the final installing end NOT before the milling, I'm not sure how much gets "destroyed" in that stage.

I would find some way to sell the wood "as is" and not graded (unless you're able REALLY to) by that I mean you can't be held responsable for anything later on.. I would be afraid someone looking for $ and sue happy could try to get you for not having it meet NOFMA standards. Or as someone else said, if (when) the floor moves or if it cups, you're not held responsable. I've even heard of people (homeowners) trying to pass the blame on to distributors for squeaks.... Not that it would happen but I would just hate some crazy happy lawyer get ahold of you....

You may be intrested in reading this site:
http://www.nofma.org/CertificationGrading/GradingandMillingStandards/tabid/86/Default.aspx

[fireman05]

I sell about 10,000 sq foot of flooring per year and tell my customers to allow 20% extra for waste/miscuts/defects.  I sell most material not trimmed for defects etc and label it as "cabin grade" at a lower cost.  Clear grade is considerably more in cost.  I do advise customers a few things.  First acclimate it a minimum of 2 weeks in the area to be placed.  Use 15# or 30# felt paper under it as a moisture barrier.  Caution in placing it in an area with a fireplace or woodburning stove due to the dryness/heat in that room.  Leave 1/2" gap between the wall and finished floor.  Spend plenty of time sanding to perfection or you will not have a good finish.  Wood moves, so expect to see a few open areas in the joints if you don't nail it well.

Have been producing flooring for 3+ years and have not had a customer complaint yet!!  Knock on wood!

[solidwoods]

If you mill at home your slabs could be burned to heat water for your business and home.
Use your own kiln (a room in the workshop is fine) .
Purchase a molder (just saw a Weinig U17 go by @ $3k)
Make flooring, outdoor furniture (from your #3 wood), wooden hot tubs/water tanks/fishtanks , molding.

You can mfr. 10,000sf per month no problem.
Install it (if you have the back for it).

If you could sell all you could make at retail price - you'd have a tax problem.

I sell from my inventory or I mill the customers logs into flooring $1.25sf.
Understanding the industry standard nofma grading concept is good but you will need a grading standard writen so that the customer can understand it.
Example boards of the flooring grades (glued together, hung on the wall) are a good sales tool also.
A good E-sales package will make sales also.  It has pics and text to show the customer your goods/services.

When you fully understand wood and its milling/drying/molding/installing properties then sell the flooring.
If a flooring job has a problem you can welcome a certified nofma flooring inspector to see your operation , talk to you about how it was made, and inspect the home (water leaks,damp crawl space etc) and the flooring installation.


Milling to t/g flooring (or any wood product) is fairly easy as long as you stay right down the middle of the rules.
What you have to watch for is a customer or installer that doesn't.

Knowing the installer is the best.  Its in the installers interest also to stay within the installation rules also.

You'll need:
Price lists for all species, sizes, grades (typically 4 grades + qtr. sawn).
Grade rules per species.
Qty. discounts if you wish.
Prices from wholesale, professionals discount, factory direct, retail.  And a sales commision for the installer/contracter that brings a sale to you is good also.
If you do custom work also, that's  about 2 pages of machine rates.

jim

[rfalk]

Make sure it is dry.....6-8% for flooring...acclimation on site is fine, but don't expect air dried lumber to drop 4-6% in a few weeks.....you need to start with dry lumber (6-8%), acclimate on site, then install. Bob Falk, Forest Products Lab.