Hand Raising

[walexander]

Ok, so I am getting close to finished with my frame. It is a 1200 square foot 12x24 with 2 24x12 sheds attached to each side. All red oak. The frame is small enough where I feel I could hand raise it. Manpower is not a problem since I have so many people who want to help. I am reading up on the art of the hand raising. However, I want to ask, do you think an accident waiver is a good idea? Do they even mean anything? I would like to cover myself, but don't want to get my friends and neighbors to sign the dotted line if it really is not necessary. Thanks,

Will

[sawmilllawyer]

Good question? You really have to make a tough judgement call on that one. Since I am a licensed attorney; (but don't tell anyone, mama does'nt know either, she thinks I still work as a piano player in a whorehouse) my general advice would be to get everyone to sign a waiver just to CYA.  Because, you never know what is going to happen out there. This is counter balanced by the fact that some of your friends/neighbors helping with the raising might be offended/upset by having to sign such a document. Another thought, do you have any type insurance which would pay if someone is accidentally injured on your work site? Do they (friends/neighbors) have any isurance coverage if they get injured. Tough call, good luck. Andy

[witterbound]

Go talk to your insurance agent about buying workers comp insurance for the raising.  Don't know if it's possible, but I'd bet it is.  I know that workers comp polices can cover volunteers.  The premiums are based on the amount you would pay a worker to do similar work, if you were to pay them.  I would think the premium would be very reasonable, and well worth it for your peace of mind.

I just think it would be terrible to tell your friends that you'd like them to help you, but "you know, if you get injured, you're on your own."  If they are injured because of you were negligent in the raising (for example, you didn't use a strong enough rope, or you didn't provide adequate fall protection, or perhaps because you didn't tell your friends where not to stand!), then their health insurance is going to cover their bills.  But then, the health plan very well might try to recover those costs from you, if they can prove you were at fault.  I am not sure such a waiver would cover this situation.

[Don P]

It just won't matter. No peice of paper will cover you if something happens, no way no how. An amatuer inviting friends in and lifting by hand in a day when cranes are available is going to be viewed in the harsh light after an accident as neglegent. Now, with false illusions of personal financial safety dashed, make the decision  ;). I'm not pushing you one way or the other but there's the world we live in.

[walexander]

Thanks for the response. A crane just seems like such a waste when I have 20-30 guys who want to come help. It would make some things easier for sure and be safer. But it would be a great experience to put it up as a community.

I traveled to New Zealand for awhile and thier policy is that you must prove criminal negligence for someone to be liable for an injury. In other words, they must have commited a crime for you to seek damages. It is amazing when you travel other places and see how America is viewed as such an extremely litigous society.

I'll check with my insurance agent.

Anyone out there done a hand raising and have any pointers? I have read the section in a couple of books, but want to know any extra tips.

Will

[ljmathias]

We recently held a framing workshop here in Mississippi with Jim Rogers as instructor- went great.  We checked on insurance with our long-time agent: liability alone was over $900 for a one-week workshop so we just had everyone sign waivers.  Best they would do probably is make someone feel bad if they did sue us, but hey, that might be worth something.  Never became a problem with the group we had- great bunch of fellows who still all seemed to take personal responsibility and ethics seriously, but then, you can never tell a book by its cover, as the saying goes.  Would we do the hand-raising without insurance?  Sure, but I'd probably only use relatives who know they would only get debts if they won a lawsuit.   :D

Lj

[beenthere]

Last year there was a barn raising in WI, that a few FF members attended. Lots of extra hands, and we signed a waiver on site.
Plenty of ways to get hurt, and all needed to trust those around who may or may not have the skills or the intuition to do the right thing.
One disaster was averted when the straw boss, Rooster, noticed that the gin pole being used was not taking the load of the first bent...looked like it would break. Guy lines were changed and the problem solved. There was good organization and concern for safety, with several pike poles used to push and hold the bents in place without having to stand close to a potential danger.

Here is the thread about that project.

https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,26080.0.html