Avoiding Mistakes

[sweathog]

I'm about to solicit bids to log about 20 acres of land in Virginia. What questions should I ask of the logging companies? e.g., should I impose time limits on work, specify condition land should be left in after logging is over. Require to plant new trees. My uncle used to do all this but he's not here any more. I generally just need to know, what mistakes should I avoid in contracting with a company. Thanks for your help.

[OneWithWood]

The best way to avoid mistakes is to hire an experienced consulting forester.  You will get a price that will more than pay for his/her services.

[crtreedude]

The best way to avoid mistakes is to hire an experienced consulting forester.  You will get a price that will more than pay for his/her services.

Absolutely! Most people sell logs just once or twice in their life. Makes it really hard to do it right and there is a lot of money on the line, and sad to say, some pretty shifty people out there.

An experienced consulting forester is the way to go.

[Tom]

Agreed!

There will be some foresters answer this shortly, I'm sure.  You will probably get a few hints, but the answer is contained in years of experience and lots of book study.   Hiring a Consulting Forester is the way to go.  Tell him your goals and give him free rein.  You might end up with a lot of money and still have trees to sell later. 

[VT_Forestry]

Agreed!

There will be some foresters answer this shortly, I'm sure.  You will probably get a few hints, but the answer is contained in years of experience and lots of book study.   Hiring a Consulting Forester is the way to go.  Tell him your goals and give him free rein.  You might end up with a lot of money and still have trees to sell later. 

X2...there is no replacement for experience when selling timber.  You will undoubtedly get excellent advice here, but still the best bet is to hire someone to help you along the way.  Ask them lots of questions and get a feel for what they do

James

[Maineloggerkid]

 I agree- a forester is the only way to travel.  They know alot, they are familiar with the area, and above all- they can look at your lot and identify specific needs for your land; we can't do that for you do to geographic  reasons.

[crtreedude]

I agree- a forester is the only way to travel.  They know alot, they are familiar with the area, and above all- they can look at your lot and identify specific needs for your land; we can't do that for you do to geographic  reasons.

Heck, I couldn't help out since I only know the market for tropical hardwood. Getting so I am not even sure I can recognize an oak anymore.  Unless an acorn drops on my head of course...  :

[Maineloggerkid]

Ya don't have much oak down there, eh ?

[woodsrunner]

You've had sound advice from everyone who has replied. I'll repeat it. Hire a consulting forester. Find a consulting forester who is reputable and who you can develop a good working relationship with. Most of the people I see selling their timber have absolutely no idea what kind of volumes or species they have. As a result they can easily get taken advantage of in a timber sale. I just sold half a million bf of good hardwood timber. I work with a very good consulting forester and I promise you I would never!!!!!!!! make a sale of my timber without my consulting forester. Make sure you pick one who you get along with and feel comfortable with. A good consulting forester can inventory and mark your timber, put the tract out for bids, and manage the sale for you. He should also monitor the harvest and ensure that the loggers follow the applicable BMP's and provide you with a contractual agreement between you and the logger. There will of course be a fee for his services, but trust me a good consulting forester will make you money!!!!!

[crtreedude]

Ya don't have much oak down there, eh ?

Roble Savana
Roble Corel

Are two common oaks. (Roble = oak), but they aren't anything like what you have up there.

[Cedarman]

Even before hiring a consulting forester, think about what it is you wish to accomplish.  Are you keeping the land and want it to be even better in the future?  Any wildlife requirements? Are you wanting to maximize the money now or maximize the money in the future by making the woods more productive?  Is money the main objective?  What about Timber Stand Improvement?  Does it need to be done before logging , as part of the logging job, or will it be done after logging, or a combination?  Do you like working inthe woods and can do some TSI?  These are some of the things to think about.  Make a written list so that when you talk to a forester you can bring up all the things you are thinking about.  Make sure he tells you things straight up and not just what he thinks you want to hear.
My 2cents.

[sweathog]

Thanks for the replies. I've downloaded a list of forresters from my state.

[Jeff]

Even with that, screen, interview and get references for the Foresters on your list. If they are good at what they do, they will have no shortage of previous clients waiting to give you a recommendation. Remember that there are Foresters out there working for companies that's goal is to get the best timber at the lowest price. Make sure you get a Forester that is working towards your goals, not someone else's.

[thecfarm]

And check those references.He must be cutting somewheres now.Go to that site and see how it looks.There will be some so called damage or a mess,for no better word.But it should not look like a bomb has gone off.Some guys will go back in and clean up the trees that got damaged,while others will walk off and leave them.No need to replant,unless you want a certain type of trees to grow.Mother nature will take care of that for you.Just may not be what you want to come back.Do your homework.It's your land so you need to enjoy the money you get,but you need to enjoy the land when it's all done too.

[rebocardo]

Make sure of your property lines, especially if anything is going to be cut near a neighbor's property.

I cleared some land for a person that assumed a neighbor's fence was the property line. Unfortunately, both the neighbor that watched me cut the trees every day and the land owner were ignorant of the fact that a buffer zone existed. The buffer zone belonged to the neighbor.

As I was clearing around a tree to cut it, I came upon an iron pin. Knowing most people are not apt to drive 1/2" rebar into the ground for kicks, by looking at the plot plan, I was able to find another survey pin, this one painted orange.

I went to the street, went to the neighbor on the other side where I thought the property line probably was going by the tree line.  600 feet later, I determined I was cutting trees that did not belong to the property on either the right or left side of the lot. Because I was able to find flagging tape near the fence on a tree too.

I stopped cutting for the day and suggested a survey be done because 

Turns out I was cutting in a buffer zone. The buffer zone was required by the county for aesthetics and what not when the land was developed and the land developer never put up the six foot high fence as required by law to protect the county mandated buffer zone, required by code. He just put up the fence around the developed property.  He probably saved a whole $1000 by doing it. Lawyers around here charge $300 an hour.

So, I got paid for my work, I never checked back after I left, but, the county was now involved too. I think the lawyers won  ;)  :D

So, I agree a forester is the only way to go for 20 acres, but, he can't do his job properly if the land is not clearly marked.

A whole story for one line of advice  ;D

[ibseeker]

Be patient while looking for a Consulting Forester willing to take on a small job. I had zero luck finding one and talked with a half dozen. Same response, not enough money in the timber to pay for their services. Hopefully you have better quality timber than I did and that will make the difference. I finally went with the logger that the State Forester recommended. I lucked out and believe that he did me right. I don't recommend doing what I did because I didn't work out some key parts of the contract. Not a big deal but I'm left with fixing the damage done by the skidders.

Once again, BE PATIENT....it doesn't have to get done tomorrow and in the long run the Forester will really pay for his own services in the quality of what you end up with. This is too complex for a novice to succeed at. Take it from me, I'm still struggling to put together a plan.

Good luck and send pictures, everyone likes em.

[Ron Wenrich]

Some consultants only look at the timber value, because all they do is charge a percentage.  I don't like that system for several reasons.  The result is just what you have described.  Only those with sufficient value and volumes get the work done.

If you want them to work on small acreage, have them quote their fees on an hourly or volume basis.  If you separate the fee structure, a lot better work can be accomplished.  Quality of work should not be dependent on the quality of the timber. 

[ibseeker]

That's great advice, Ron. It offers a different way of getting a Forester involved and helps the timber owner figure out if it's profitable enough to pay for. I'll have to call a few more Forester's a see if they're interested in doing some work for me on an hourly basis or a flat fee. Is this a common practice?

You should follow Ron's advice if you can't getting a Forester interested due to the small acreage....there's more than one way to skin this cat.

[VT_Forestry]

Where are you located in Virginia?  A friend of mine is starting to do consulting work on the side, if you are in the area we would be happy to come by and see what we can do for you 

[rebocardo]

> Quality of work should not be dependent on the quality of the timber.

Less chance of high grading that way too ???