small woodlot owners: overseas marketing

[chinahand]

Howdy,

First timer on the forum.  My question is about what avenues might exist for small woodlot owners to export logs to Asia.  My 40 acre woodlot is in Maine, but I'll be posted in Taiwan for a few years to come and speak fluent Chinese.  Not looking to make a killing here:  just seems like there might be some meager gains to be made, as well as the opportunity to learn and contribute to the economic health of the area.   Many small woodlot owners like myself aren't necessarily in business--I like my privacy and only cut to put in a road and a small camp--but see the value in selective cutting as a healthy management practice.  There's not a heckuva lot of value to my single lot (hemlock and spruce, mostly), but a collection of people might be able to pool resources.  I know that if it were profitable the big guys would be doing it already, with efficiencies of scale that I could never match.  Seems like there's a whole chain of players here, in an industry I know next to nothing about, so am just tossing this out there to see if anyone has heard of anything similar, or could suggest how they might go about it.  Maybe I just need a slap upside the head.  Thanks!

[DanG]

Welcome to the Forum, Chinahand.  Aren't you in an interesting position, though?  While we have a wealth of knowledge on board, there are few, if any, who have resources and contacts at both ends of the new Global markets.  I think that puts you in a pretty DanG good spot!  I would think that the trick would be to garner all the knowledge of the business you can, then apply that toward developing an Asian market for the goods you have available.  You have  come to the right place to learn the supply side of that equation. ;)

[chinahand]

Appreciate the feedback--and grateful it wasn't the slap-upside-the-head sort.  Hoping to get in contact with the commerce division of the U.S. consulate here to see what type of support they might lend, as well as on the Maine side to what resources the state might point me toward.  We'll see how it all starts to evolve--or unravel. 

[SwampDonkey]

Here in New Brunswick we have a forest products marketing board system for small private woodlot owners. Most of our exports are to the US. We did at one time buy a hardwood mill and tried the export market to Europe. But, the whole deal was mismanaged from the get go. So, in short we have not been real successful in lumber exports here from private woodlot groups. They often lack the expertise and over seas contacts. With the domestic market and NE US we get a lot of information from bulletins send out by the Maritime Lumber Bureau. Most marketing board managers are not experts in marketing, but it gets better as they become more familiar with the local market opportunities and sources of info available. They try to form relationships directly with the mill procurement people and develop a contract and product specification sheet to meet their needs.

As far as exporting logs, we are talking about very small volumes of top grade logs so there is a problem with accumulating enough wood and making sure it gets to market before it spoils. Works fine for our US markets in Maine because it's not a long ways from home.

[chinahand]

Thanks for your post.  How to avoid spoilage?  If we're talking about softwoods, does one ship green or semi-dry?  Peeled or unpealed?  Even in the most efficient process, my amateur figuring is that we're talking about at least 6 weeks from the time a tree is felled to the time it leaves a container in China or Taiwan and has a chance to air out again, with maybe 5 weeks in a container (in dock and on the sea).  I need to look into the relative costs of shipping by train to the west coast then boarding a ship vs. sailing from Portland or Boston, since this will figure into time (and potentially, spoilage). 

[SwampDonkey]

updated my last post with some editing.

[ellmoe]

   If you shipping by train ,my experience is that you will have little control on the delevery time. From La. it was +/- two weeks for logs to me.The total was usual three weeks. If you change raillines that is another expense. Also, it is difficult in normal times to get log cars. I suspect that there are plenty available now. ;D  I think you are looking at a difficult task ahead, but I wish you well.

Mark

[thecfarm]

Welcome to the forum,chinahand.I have heard about certain markets for hard wood,but have not heard of any softwoods going that way.I would think there would be a LOT of paper work with doing something like you want to do too.But I have no idea about any of this for sure.I know at work we had to have our wooden pallets kiln dried to a certain temp and store inside to keep the wood so called bug free.But maybe that was just a certain wood species.

[Cedarman]

I use a lumber broker any time I need to export lumber.  They can export logs too.  They charge about 5% for  a container of lumber.  You have to find one you can trust and work out the money transfers.  Sometimes I get paid after shipment, sometimes before it leaves our mill.

Chinahand, if you are going overseas, then you will have a good opportunity to find some buyers of your products and learn first hand exactly what they need.

[chinahand]

I've since looked on "Alibaba.com"--China's megasourcing trade portal--and see that some folks (even from New England area) are selling softwoods to China.  The shipping times are actually quite short, at least one source indicates that logs are peeled, and there appears to be an industry standard pesticide certification.  Anyway, I'm slowly learning stuff. 

[Ron Wenrich]

We've shipped out several loads of logs and lumber for the Asian markets.  But, we've worked with several different buyers who handled all the logistics, such as finding the market, and getting the money.  The last part is probably the most important, and I believe you have to work with a bank if you don't want to get burnt.

For our part, we had to harvest the logs that would be acceptable for those markets.  We also had to stockpile them until we had at least one load, but more preferable to have several loads.  We also have the equipment to load container trucks.  It can be tricky and weight can be an issue.

We deal only in hardwoods.  Our logs have to be inspected by the USDA for bugs.  Ones that have too many need to be debarked before we can ship.  We have a debarker on the mill and that isn't a problem.

I do know of a few guys that sold directly to the Chinese and delivered to the docks in Philadelphia.  They got burnt.  

Right now, I don't know how much of a market is available in China.  A lot has dried up since the big boom.  It seemed that the Chinese didn't want to take ships back empty when they were exporting to the US.  They were looking for all sorts of resources to refill those containers.  But, the US has pulled back in consumption, so there aren't as many ships making the return leg and there aren't as many factories in China.

[thecfarm]

I had no idea that softwood was being shipped and peeled too. Just make sure when selling that you have a way to get rid of the lower grade too.Don't want to sell all of the butt logs and than get stuck with the #1-2 and 3's.

[jim king]

Chinahand:

Living in Taiwan would give you an excellent opportunity to be the man on the spot to handle such a business.  The Chinese even with our worlwide economic crises are still HUGE buyers.  They would like to buy everything produced here in the Amazon but are very difficult to work with and as a result they dont get to far here.

I would certainly try to sell value added products such as flooring blanks and you handle both the buyer and seller.  The US is one of the few countries in the world where it is possible to export raw logs without any value added.  Even here in third world countries raw logs cannot be exported by the majority of countries.  You are in a unique situation as you will be living on site.  THAT IS THE KEY , you will have first hand knowledge of the buyer and that is critical over there.

Many areas of China have a tax on sawn lumber and none on raw logs.  That is why they want logs because it creates more work in China and takes work from other countries.  Tawain and the mainland  are the same tribe and they all work well together but they are not easy.