Plunge Cut and Notches?

[jander3]

I tried out a plunge cut and then cut the back strap (based on information I obtained from this forum) on an Aspen that I will use for the cabin ridge.  I wanted to try out the technique on a smaller tree so I could understand the mechanics.  It seemed to work very well, except for a pull on one side of the tree.  I dropped the tree right where I intended. The butt was about 12-14" and I used the little saw (35cc).

A few questions are listed below:

Does the type of notch matter when you use this technique?  I used an open face notch.

Why did the tree pull?  Was the notch not deep enough?

Are there times when one notch works better than the others?  I understand conventional, open faced, and Humbolt notches; however, I don't know when one would be used in lieu of another.




Cutting the ridge pole using a plunge cut.



The result.

[logwalker]

It is hard to tell without being there but it might be as simple as more limbs on one side causing the tree to spin as it falls.

[Ed_K]

 From  picture everything looks right. Popple will pull as it did on your tree.To stop this,just nip each side about an inch deep. Red oak will do this also.
The reason for an open face notch is to have holding wood all the way down as the tree falls. You need 70 degree notch for this to work best.
As for depth of notch, figure 80% of you width.12"tree - 10" width. 10% of width for holding wood. 12" - 1 1/4" thick holding wood.

[4genlgr]

looks like you didn't quite get the notch cut  all the way and left a little corner attached

i've used bore (plunge) cuts with both the old style and open face notches

one sugestion is to leave the strap off center to the "good" side of the tree so it is possible to put a wedge in the "bad" side to tip the tree over

nipping the corners of the hinge is something to consider when cutting a tree that like to "barber chair" usually a hardwood like oak but poplar i have found is just as prone to it

stay safe

[RSteiner]

What Ed said.

I had that happen with ash too and other soft hardwoods.

Randy

[Kevin]

It appears at least from the picture that there is wood peeling up one side of the tree , the side that it pulled on.
If the hinge is above a root it can hold that segment of wood and hold onto the tree as it goes over causing the tree to pull to one side.
That 's the reason for nipping the wood below the hinge where a root is present.

[jander3]

Thanks for your thoughts and feedback.

[Kevin]

You're welcome, that's known as  "root pull".

[Bibbyman]

I'm one to give advice.  I can't fall a tree right to save my butt. (Maybe that's why I run a sawmill.)  But I've seen it done many, many thousands of times by my dad.  He was the best I've ever seen at getting a tree down where he wanted it and without doing damage to the tree.

The one thing I see is that the horizontal cut of the notch looks like it's the same depth and the angle cut.  Dad always cut the horizontal cut an inch or so deeper than the angle cut of the notch.   He also "nipped" a little cut on each side of the notch as suggested by others. 

He would often saw the plunge cut a little deeper over the center of the notch and leave a part of hinge on each side to control the fall.  He cut only oaks and walnuts so I don't know how other woods behave.

[Kevin]

horizontal cut an inch or so deeper

The problem with that bib is he's creating a dutchman wich could cause a barberchair.
That one inch cut closes as the tree falls and stalls the fall when the narrow gap closes.
When the tree stalls the top still wants to come over but usually the hinge wood is too thick, the tree falls prematurely until it stalls then splits up the middle of the tree.
If you get on the back cut and cut like a mad man you can probably keep up with it but the danger involved isn't worth the risk.

[Bibbyman]

I could see that if you were making the back cut about the same height as the notch horizontal cut as you have illustrated.   But dad made his back cut 3 or more inches above the horizontal notch cut – usually about the height of the top of the notch. 

Too,  if you do the plunge cut and saw up towards the notch, leaving appropriate hinge wood,  then come back and cut the release last, there should be no real danger of barber chairing.

Making the back cut above the height of the horizontal notch cut also leaves a step face that minimizes the chances of the tree kicking back off the stump.

[rickywashere]

looks like you cut all the hinge off 1 side and left too much on the other for that small a tree on the ones my bar will reach through i always cut my notch the plunge cut through about 2/3 the way to the back cut as close to the front as i'm going to then go towards the back leave couple inches to hold it then cut it from the back ... you have the basics down now all you need is practice.. we all made a few stumps look like that in the beginning   

[Kevin]

That's true with a bore but I seldom bore a tree unless it's leaning heavy to the lay.
You can eliminate the bore by eliminating the use of the dutchman.
If you are concerned about wood pulling inside at the hinge, center bore the hinge, much easier than boring through the entire tree.
Making your felling cut at the height of the top of the notch will increase your hinge wood substantially thus increasing the chance for the barber chair again.

[madhatte]

On heavy leaners, you can also bore through above the intended location of the back cut and then fall as usual;  this won't prevent barber-chairing, exactly -- what it does is make it stop at the bore.  If you give it only a couple of inches to pull, the rest of the fall will go as planned.  Of course, you'll have to buck off the mangled butt, but with conventional and open-faced cuts, you'll have to do that anyway.  I use this technique mostly with cottonwoods and alders, and I'm pretty sure it's saved my bacon more than once. 

[rickywashere]

on heavy a leaner i use the old ring cut i dont use it for no other reason or suggest anyone  else use it at all  i saw into the front make a small under cut notch then bore in from the sides till the front closes off then bore out the heart both sides saw to the back about 1 or 2 inches for hold stick it to the back and run like heck