Any Ford Mechanics

[shopteacher]

I seem to be having trouble with my F350.  It's missing and lacking power.  It also is pushing oil up through the breather and drips out the bottom of the air cleaner.  This is a 1990 F350 with a 351 Cleveland engine 5.8 liter.  I have changed the PVC valve and check the hoses to make sure they aren't blocked. I have also put new plugs and a new dist. cap and rotor.  The engine doesn't smoke at all and starts easily.  None of the plugs looked bad or fouled. Anybody have any ideas as to what they think might be wrong. ???

[Haytrader]

Valve or valve spring failure is my guess.
 ???

[biziedizie]

  I know what's wrong 8) You bought a Ford :D What does F.OR.D. stand for again???  ;D ;D

  How many miles on the truck???  Is the heat sheild still intack??? Does it puke when it's cold??? How does it run when it's warm??? Did ya let your wife drive it : ;D


    Steve

[Tillaway]

Oxygen sensor, plugged catalytic converter?

You can by a code reader at NAPA, plug it in and quiz the computer.  Often times its some sort of sensor or emisions valve not working right.  A code reader can usually pick up these codes.

[DanG]

You could have a blockage in the oil return from the rockers. What kind of oil you using?  I was using Castrol 20w50 in mine till I started having problems with lifters sticking and poor oil circulation. Cleaned it out and started using Exxon 10w40, and it seems to be ok.
Some folks may disagree with my method, but I cleaned mine out by running a batch of transmission fluid through it. Drained the oil, put in 5 qts of ATF, and let it idle for 20 minutes or so. Changed filter and put in new oil and ain't had a problem since.

[biziedizie]

 DranG  tranny fluid works great don't it. 8) They say it don't but it does ;D




      Steve

[shopteacher]

This is why I like this place, lots of good ideas to follow up on, not to mention the one smarta$$.  :D :D Course it's fun to read them replies and I really get a chuckle out of the stuff that comes across this forum.  The truck has 103,000 on it.  I bought it in Ocala, Fl. and drove it back with a Nissan on it back.  Had a small miss when I purchased it but ran good all the way home. The miss has gotten progressively worse and now seem to lack a lot of power.  Runs good otherwise. I checked on putting a remanufactured engine in, but at $2999.00  I don't think so. I think I'm going to try all the above suggestions, except letting my wife drive it, she don't even like driving the pickup much. I don't think it has a catalitic converter, but will check and the code reader thing is a good idea. Thanks Tillaway.
  DanG: I don't know what kind of oil been being used in it, but I have a case of tranny fluid and will follow your suggestion. Thanks
  Biz: Heat shield? This ain't the space shuttle, but its intact.   OK, What does F.OR.D stand for? ??? ???
   Haytrader; I've been leanning toward your diagnosis. The oil coming up through the breather leads me to think some excessive pressure is going into the crankcase.  
Thanks all and if anybody else has any input I'll be glad to hear it.

[biziedizie]

 F.O.R.D. Found on road dead.....Won't tell ya what the other meaning is as I would get booted ;D

  Oh one other thing your distributer could have a worn bushing and I would check that first, pretty common on fords. Wiggle the rotor and if it has alot of play then that could be the problem.

  Steve

  BTW I own and drrive a Ford

[OneWithWood]

F. O. R. D.

First On Race Day  8)

I would bet on the oxy sensor causing a rich mixture which in turn has blocked the catalytic converter.  Very common after 100,000 miles or so.  Any reputable muffler shop should be able test it at no charge to you.  By far the easiest possible solution so I would start there.

Let us know what you find out.

[woodmills1]

Don't whish to be the purveyor of doom, but pressure in the crankcase very oftem means cracked or broken rings.  A compression check would eliminate or identify a compression problem.  By the way the auto trans fluid trick works.  Did it to an older chevy 6 cylinder with ticky valves.

[leweee]

woodmills beat me to it.try both a dry and wet compression check.could be as simple as a head gasket.
FORD fix or repair daily : :

[Mark M]

It isn't overfull on oil is it? If so is it thin? Might be fuel dilution.

With a compression problem I would expect to see some blue smoke.  

How about the PCV valve?

Mark

[D._Frederick]

I would do the compression test, warm your engine, when hot, check it. My bet would be blown headgasket between cylinders. The 350 series is a ton truck and does not require all the smog stuff. If the engine had been over heated, you may have a cracked head. Does the engine show signs of being overheated,like no paint on the heads?

[ksu_chainsaw]

F.O.R.D.

First on Race Day- just because it's still there from the last race!!!!!

[OneWithWood]

ksu,

Yep, no need to tear them down between races like dem chebbys  :D :D ;D

The F350 chasis is used for many applications.  Teach, is there a catalytic converter on your truck?  Carburreted or EFI?

[shopteacher]

First:  Thanks for all the great input.  Tried the transmission fluid seemed to clean out the inside pretty good from the color it came out, but didn't seems to help otherwise.
I think the head gasket or valve theory seems to fit the symptoms best.  I plan to take it to my mechanic and have him o the testing on it.  Drove it after changing oil and still misses bad and really lacks power.  No smoke from the exhaust and no sign of water in the oil.
Onewithwood: No catalitic converter and fuel injected.

D. Fredrick:  Doesn't appear to have been overheated

Mark: oil level was fine, but had thick oil in it. That was the oil that was in it when I bought it. Put 10W30 back in as suggested on the hood sticker. Oil pressure went up to 50 lb. with the thinner oil.
Woodmills1:  I would think if the rings were bad I'd be getting smole out of the exhaust.
Mark M:  New PVC valve.

Read on the net where a vaccum leak can cause a miss, but that oil coming up the breather isn't from no oil leak and since putting in thinner oil I'll bet it will be pushing it up a lot more now.

[Jim_Wahl]

Hi Shopteacher,
I don't mean to cause undue alarm, but it sounds to me like the miss in the beginning was probably an air leak in the intake which eventually caused it to burn a hole in a piston which would cause loss of power and excessive blowby. I think you should be able to find a good used engine for a lot less than $2999, though. Good luck, and let us know how it works out!

[DanG]

There are a lot of things it could be, and several have been mentioned here. It will take some "hands on" diagnostics to tell for sure.
Jim, you're sure right on about one thing. Three grand is a bit steep to repower a 14 year old truck. I bought a used 460 for my 88 F350 for $600. It was from a wrecked truck. I've put 50,000 miles on it and it's still doing fine. I put it in myself and spent another couple hundred on new belts, hoses, water pump, etc. I bought the engine from a salvage yard and got a 30 day warranty with it.
I also repowered my old raggedy motor home myself. Ordered a rebuilt Dodge 360 through a local parts house. They couldn't find the right block, so they rebuilt my core for $1100. I replaced the aforementioned miscellaneous items on it, too, and was on the road for under $1500.

[woodmills1]

see how easy it is for us to change the focus of any thread.  Keep us updated on what the problem might be with you ford.

[woodmills1]

That said I have been out there workin on my 86 Chevy one ton.  New gas tank and heater core worked out fine.  Found the leak in the front brakes and the line replacement was medium hard.  However the bleeder screw was non-exisistant.  Drilled through and finally got it to give that little tink of breakin loose.  Will find out tomorrow ifin it is fixed or it would be caliper time, say here it is to shiftin threads.

[hawby]

Hey ShopTeacher,

Its probably OK. The Ford 302 is underpowered to start with... and if you get more than 6 mpg, its tuned up! ;D

If you have a good set of insulated pliers, pull one sparkwire at a time. See if the miss goes away. If it does, that is the cylinder you need to focus on.

If you have a compression tester (They are rather cheap to purchase, compared to a mechanic) Pull your plugs. Screw in the tester to each cylinder, one at a time, of course. Record the number you get.
Now, put a squirt or two of 20W oil down the plughole. Re-test and record the numbers. If they go up appreciably, its bad rings. If they don't, its valves. If you have real low numbers (Check with autozone, NAPA, or someone you trust for average range of compression for that model 302) it could be broken ring, hole in piston, burnt valve.

Depending on your future consideration for use of this truck, I have popped new/used piston/rod/bearing in place of the offending one.... and ran 15-20 thousand more miles. If this is to be a primary vehicle, three words...Jasper long block. The price to rebuild/machine/labor cannot compare to replacement with a warrenteed (sp?) long block.

Good luck!

My $0.02

hawby

[shopteacher]

Dropped the truck off at my mechanics last night and stopped after school today. Turns out one cyl. only had 30 lb. of compression.  They tore the head off and are sending it out to have it checked of cracks.  That's what they suspect  the problem is. The exhaust manifold was broken in half, so I brought it home to weld.  I use a stainless rod and have had good luck welding cast in that manner. The valves, cyl. walls and everything else I seen looked to be in good condition so maybe it won't be to bad pricewise.

[DanG]

Sounds like they have a handle on it. If the head is cracked, don't let'em talk you into welding it up. Found that out the hard way on a 6.2 diesel one time. They welded it, for a minor fee, of course, then it failed after a few months. Bought a rebuilt head for half of what the welding job cost me. :-/

[shopteacher]

Looks like it's going to be an engine change. :( Sent the head out to be tested and came back fine. Mechanic feels it would be cheaper to replace it than tear the bottom apart and rebuild it. Looking for a 5.8 liter to fit a 1990 F350.