Simple Post & Beam Barn Plan

[treecyclers]

Ladies & Gents,
My folks could really use a shed to replace the one that's falling over. Dad & I built the old one 30 years ago, and it was pretty good for our knowledge of construction at the time, but now it's life is about over, and it's time to bring it down.
In looking at basic timberframing, it appears to be fairly simple to construct a post & beam type barn/shed, and it would be good practice for me to start with a project like this to get my bones in timberframing.
I have the logs available, my sawmill I hauled all the way from Phoenix, some woodworking tools, and a whole lot of ability, but little knowledge.
I just ordered the books from the library, but am wondering if anyone has a basic plan for a 16x32 shed/barn type structure built on sonotube type footings.
Ideally, I'd like to do something using the king post construction, as I'm limited to 17'6" on my mill, and I'd like my second project be a barn that's a bit larger than would be converted to a home as funding comes available.
Can anyone give me guidance on this one?
Thanks in advance!
Dave

[Jim_Rogers]

I may have a design of some thing like this already drawn.
I'd have to check my files and see.....

I could produce some drawings for you if you wish.....

What roof pitch where you thinking about?

What height side walls?

Jim Rogers

[Brad_bb]

Are you limiting your barn dimensions based on your sawmill cut length?  You may not need to do that.  If you are thinking about the length of your tie beam, it's also possible to have a two piece tie coming into the king post.  Then your limiting length becomes your principle rafters.  There are other options too.  Have someone else cut the longer pieces, either with a portable band mill, or even with an even more portable chainsaw mill.  In the old days, the really long pieces were Hewn on site.  Now that would be something for you!

[treecyclers]

I could produce some drawings for you if you wish.....
What roof pitch where you thinking about?
What height side walls?
Jim Rogers

Pitch of roof about 6 in 12.
Sidewalls I'd like to have high enough to accommodate the mill at full mast, which is about 9'8". 
Mr. Jim, the biggest issue I have right now is the engineering aspects.
I can work wood like a champ, and have already started assembling my toolbox from what I have on hand per your list of "gotta have em" tools.
I also have a pile of 4x4x14 white pine timbers I cut overrun that I will be playing with to practice y joinery and joint cutting skills that have rusted some over the past couple years.

One of the overriding principles of this project is that I want to:
1) Mill and build everything straight off my mill.
2) Take it from concept to structure to best understand the process, why things are done in specific ways, and joinery practice.

An old timer told me once that the best mortise & tenon joints, when cut ideally, you can tap the together with your hat.
Never made sense until I did a few like that, and the results were incredible. They fit like a glove, I quit having issues with splitting and dry joints. I love old school.
Thanks!
Dave

[Jim_Rogers]

An old timer told me once that the best mortise & tenon joints, when cut ideally, you can tap the together with your hat.

Dave:

Well, he had that right.... for sure... and if you can do that without the joint be sloppy then you're on the right path.....

You said: "the biggest issue I have right now is the engineering aspects."
and: I can understand that. You need it to be built right, and so that it will stand up on it's own and last.

Are you going to get a building permit? If so will he need drawings that have an engineer's stamp on them?

I can help you with your design and I know several engineers who can oversee the design and stamp the plans so that you can get your building permit.

I'm sure you're aware of the building requirements for NY and that you can use your own wood if you fill out the sawmill paperwork for the building department. I'm not sure if I have a copy of that, here. But if I don't we could/should be able to readily find one.

You'll need to make sure your timbers meet the grade #2 requirement for this document. Can you select good logs and produce grade #2 timbers?

I'll look through my drawings and see what I have already on hand.

Jim Rogers

[treecyclers]

Are you going to get a building permit?

>Haven't decided. As it's merely an outbuilding/shed at this point, and well out of sight from the road, that's to be determined.

I can help you with your design and I know several engineers who can oversee the design and stamp the plans so that you can get your building permit.

>I just want to ensure that it would pass muster if inspected.

I'm sure you're aware of the building requirements for NY and that you can use your own wood if you fill out the sawmill paperwork for the building department. I'm not sure if I have a copy of that, here. But if I don't we could/should be able to readily find one.

>Just getting started in learning about the full extent of NY bureaucracy. I didn't think it possible to make anything this difficult. Guess I was wrong!

You'll need to make sure your timbers meet the grade #2 requirement for this document. Can you select good logs and produce grade #2 timbers?

>Milling #2 is easy. Getting the logs is easy.
Keeping them pretty is the hard part.

I'll look through my drawings and see what I have already on hand.

>Simple is good. And I can't thank you enough for your guidance, Mr. Jim.
Should have those books in hand today from the library!

[Jim_Rogers]

To begin you should try and find out your snow load for your area.

Can you do that easily?

This will help us to make sure your rafters are the right size for the roof.

Jim Rogers

[treecyclers]

Mr. Jim-
I would think it about the same as yours, being that we're fairly close geographically.
Where would I find that information, or, who should I talk with to get it?
Dave

[Jim_Rogers]

Well, if you're good with a computer search you could try and find it online through the state codes. If you can do that then you don't need to call your building department.

But otherwise it's the building inspector/department.

You can just call them and not tell them who you are and ask.... or call the town next to yours and ask them. They should be the same, as usually the load is figured on a broad scale like by county....

I can try and find it for you, maybe tomorrow, but I have to leave now.... and won't be back online until tomorrow morning....

[mmhailey]

First and foremost.... I am not pushing, selling, promoting, etc;... ;D Scott's plans or classes, however I did attend one of his classes at Grand Oaks Timber framing and enjoyed it immensely. The class built one of the 16X24 King Post frames much like the one you see here.. We did cut the sills, and some floor joists though.

I have a set of plans I bought from Scott, and am currently planning on starting cutting that frame in March.





Notice the pic from his website doesn't have all the purlins installed. Also his plan includes sills, and floor joists, which you may or may not want. I know you said you wanted a 16X32, which would require you to add one more bent.  I don't have a clue on the engineering aspects. Certainly you could take the plans to an engineer and have them approved or modified.

Good luck, and enjoy your project. Maybe Santa will bring you a sharp chisel  8) 8)

[treecyclers]

Good luck, and enjoy your project. Maybe Santa will bring you a sharp chisel  8) 8)

Well, I think I'm sitting OK on chisels, but a shiny new handsaw would be real nice!
The structure in your photo is almost exactly the picture I had in my head as I have been conceiving this notion to make into reality. Add a few braces to stiffen the structure, and we're there!
Oh, and a roof. Gotta have a roof.
Sides. Gotta have sides.
Ok, and a place to put my coffee pot too.
WOOHOO! We're on a roll now!
I can smell the sawdust already!
Oh, wait! I shoveled some today! That's why....

[jdtuttle]

 Dave,
If you're hunting tonight I will have this information for you & the certified lumber code requirements to use your own lumber.

Code Select Expand

To begin you should try and find out your snow load for your area.

jim

[Jim_Rogers]

jd:
If you could, send it to me as well as I'd like to have it on file for future use.
PM or regular email would work.
Thanks
Jim Rogers

[jdtuttle]

I sent Jim some information but thought others in NY may be interested too. Educating your code officials may be your biggest hurdle.
jim

Residential Code of New York State
Part III - Building Planning and Construction
§RR602
WOOD WALL FRAMING


§RR602.1 Identification. Load-bearing dimension lumber for studs, plates and headers shall be identified by a grade mark of a lumber grading or inspection agency that has been approved by an accreditation body that complies with DOC PS 20. In lieu of a grade mark, a certification of inspection issued by a lumber grading or inspection agency meeting the requirements of this section shall be accepted.

Exception: Dimension lumber which is neither identified by a grade mark nor issued a certificate of inspection by a lumber grading or inspection agency may be used for load-bearing purposes under the following conditions when authorized by the authority having jurisdiction:

1. The producing mill shall sell or provide the lumber directly to the ultimate consumer or the consumer=s contract builder for use in an approved structure.

2. The producing mill shall certify in writing to the consumer or contract builder on a form to be provided by the authority having jurisdiction that the quality and safe working stresses of such lumber are equal to or exceed No. 2 grade of the species in accordance with the conditions set forth in American Softwood Lumber Standard (PS 20-99) published by

§RR502
Wood Floor Framing
§RR502.1 Identification. Load-bearing dimension lumber for joists, beams and girders shall be identified by a grade mark of a lumber grading or inspection agency that has been approved by an accreditation body that complies with DOC PS 20. In lieu of a grade mark, a certificate of inspection issued by a lumber grading or inspection agency meeting the requirements of this section shall be accepted.

Exception: Dimension lumber which is neither identified by a grade mark nor issued a certificate of inspection by a lumber grading or inspection agency may be used for load bearing purposes under the following conditions when authorized by the authority having jurisdiction:

1. The producing mill shall sell or provide the lumber directly to the ultimate consumer or the consumer=s contract builder for use in an approved structure.

2. The producing mill shall certify in writing to the consumer or contract builder on a form to be provided by the authority having jurisdiction that the quality and safe working stresses of such lumber are equal to or exceed No. 2 grade of the species in accordance with the conditions set forth in American Softwood Lumber Standard (PS 20-99) published by the United States Department of Commerce. Such certification shall be filed as part of the building permit application.

[Jim_Rogers]

jd:
thanks for all the info....

Jim Rogers

[submarinesailor]

Does anyone know if Virginia has the same type of exception as NY?

Exception: Dimension lumber which is neither identified by a grade mark nor issued a certificate of inspection by a lumber grading or inspection agency may be used for load-bearing purposes under the following conditions when authorized by the authority having jurisdiction:

1. The producing mill shall sell or provide the lumber directly to the ultimate consumer or the consumer=s contract builder for use in an approved structure.

2. The producing mill shall certify in writing to the consumer or contract builder on a form to be provided by the authority having jurisdiction that the quality and safe working stresses of such lumber are equal to or exceed No. 2 grade of the species in accordance with the conditions set forth in American Softwood Lumber Standard (PS 20-99) published by

Bruce

[jdtuttle]

Here's their const code with contact information. I looked through it quickly but didn't see a reference to lumber certification.
http://www.dhcd.virginia.gov/StateBuildingCodesandRegulations/PDFs/2006/2006_VirginiaConstructionCode.pdf

[ballen]

I'm pretty sure PA has settled on using the standard IRC (International Residential Codes) here:

http://www.iccsafe.org/Store/Pages/Category.aspx?cat=ICCSafe&category=2570&parentcategory=Store%20Products&parentcategory=330

Does anyone have familiarity with them with regards to Timber Frame buildings?  I'm looking to complicate matters by using 100 year old barn beams.  Does anyone have experience making code with those?

Thanks,
Bill

[shinnlinger]

Bill,

My experience with used timbers is inspectors don't like them.  There was one place in Connecticut where my buddy had to run an old frame inside a conventional house as there was no ifs ands or butts about stressing any part of that old frame .

Now old timbers are cool, but they can be pretty dicey if you are reusing for a residence.  A lot of old stuff, although standing, is under-built and rotted to some degree.  Getting the timbers apart without compromising them can be another issue.  Not that I haven't reused, but you really have to inspect and weigh your options.  I mean do you really want to learn that your decision to use a cool 100 year old beam killed someone????

[kderby]

In Oregon an "agriculture building" is a blank check.  The inspector won't even come visit.  If I build on my industrial lot the "commercial" building code is a monster.  Be sure to recognize those variations and plan accordingly.  I plan to build a "tractor shed" this winter so I expect to learn nore about this.

Cheers

Kendall