Best Time to Cut White Pine in PA and Air Dry for Cabin Walls & Inside Framing ?

[H60 Hawk Pilot]

I'd like to start cutting White Pine for Log Cabin Construction actual in August 2010


The entire Log Cabin may be of White Pine because of the large number of trees available.

What is the expected air dry time for White Pine logs sawed in November 09 to Apr. 2010 ?

Opt. #1 ~  Should I cut the timbers to size when I first cut the trees down ?

Opt # 2 ~ Should I cut the timbers up (from drying log) to size at a certain percentage of moisure _____ % value ?

How expensive is it to build your own kilm $ _____  and what are the favorite kilms for home use for cabin building ?

What time (air dry in PA in Winter) period ______ (days) does it take to properly dry lumber for use >> to moisture level of  _____  % ?

Do I need to treat the logs on the ends when they are cut _______ and with what __________ name brand ?

**  Feel free to add other information or ideas that I did not ask about...  due to my lack of knowledge regarding drying & processing green

lumber (I'm sure you will).



Avery

[red oaks lumber]

you are trying to adress to many things all at once.

you won't get alot of air time during the winter, more towards spring. are you using your timbers rough sawn or planed? if r.sawn, saw them oversize k.dry them next year, right before you use them, resaw to the size you need. by doing this they will be clean and bright, airdrying and k.d. will darken them slightly.
far as costs of kilns.. are you planning on using the kiln after your cabin is built? or just for your home? is your plans are to dry more wood later contact nyle corp. they can help. if this is a one shot deal drying ,find someone that can dry it for you.
the problem with just airdrying pine is you can't set the pitch, pockets of pitch will keep bleeding for years, and if all the bark is not sawn off the wood you can have bug problems.
if you are cutting trees this fall, and plan on sawing yet this winter, no need to end coat your logs, pine doesn't end check very much.
hope this helps

[H60 Hawk Pilot]

I'd like to have all the >> Lumber sawed and in place for construction by --  August and under roof by NLT  mid November 2010.

The walls are D-logs, most of the inside structure is band sawed (finish) timbers.  Some of the structure may be run through planer, depends on the balance of one against the other (look).

I plan on building some smaller cabins for summer rental, with that thought..  I would have long term usage from having my own kilm.

Regarding the log cutting in the winter, just pile them up and saw then in April to my laundry list of: quantity and size for 28 by 36 cabin.

How long does it take to dry lumber in a kilm (estimate) ? I realize it depends on the kilm size, etc., this would be a home owners type kilm.

I see kilm plans listed different places, this is my expected direction.  I have lots of tools & equipment to construct about anything.


Avery   

[red oaks lumber]

your d-logs, are you going to use the natural outside for your d-part? if so, get those sawed this fall, and hand peel the bark off.sticker them, cover the top of your piles. next fall k.dry them. do the same with the balance of your lumber. kiln time will be less than 2 weeks per charge.

[sparky]

I operate a sawmill for an antique tractor show that is held the second weekend of September in West-central Minnesota. We saw red pine, not white, but I would expect very little difference in results. We air dry the sawn lumber. We usually plane the lumber the following year at the next show.

The past two years, we were on a building project where we planed 2" dimension lumber and 1" boards in May that were sawn the previous Sept. We also planed 2" dimension lumber in Sept. that were sawn in early May. The moisture content in all cases was around 11%, or less. There were no problems with the lumber. I did not notice any issues with pitch that is mentioned in one reply to this post.

Sparky

[red oaks lumber]

red and white pine are vary similar they are both pine. from there theyare complete opposites. red has less pitch,gives up water very easy. white has alot more pitch throuhgout the log ,also has spotty water areas, slower dry time

[sparky]

Red Oaks,

Thanks for the info.

Sparky

[tughill]

Having air dried many thousands of board foot of eastern white pine, and having heard the argument of air drying not 'setting the pitch'.  I still don't believe it.  Wives tale. Sorry.  Sometimes white pine defects (knots, internal pockets of bark, or pitch) bleed out a bit during the first few months of air drying, but generally boards are dry as you want them after 6 months outside, properly stacked and sticked, in the open.  Not stacked in the woods, you need lots of airflow to prevent mold.  Also putting some tin overtop the last course of boards (on additional sticks, not laying on the boards) keeps the water off which prevents staining.

Planks and timbers of course need more time, based on thickness, it may be over a year, year and a half to dry a 6x6 or larger timber well.

Best is to mill, and stack the lumber same week as tree is cut, but pine will last for a while, especially in winter. 

Air drying in winter is somewhat slower due to cold, but winter is also low humidity, which is good for drying.  Getting any bark left on lumber peeled off needs to be done ASAP.  Powder post beetles love pine, and will be greatly reduced by removing any bark and wintertime milling and drying.

[red oaks lumber]

sorry tughill, fact not wifes tale! temp needs to reach 160 deg. to set pitch. do some research about it

[beenthere]

.............

Air drying in winter is somewhat slower due to cold, but winter is also low humidity, which is good for drying.  Getting any bark left on lumber peeled off needs to be done ASAP.  Powder post beetles love pine, and will be greatly reduced by removing any bark and wintertime milling and drying.

Ooops!  Winter is high humidity (unless you are talking about air drying in a heated building in the winter).

[SwampDonkey]

Actually, if you look at climate data for this region there is no difference, the average is around 75% all year. Slightly higher in the fall wet season. The summer is also slightly higher than Jan-March.

http://www.climate-zone.com/climate/united-states/maine/caribou

Relative humidity is a poor measure of moisture in the air though, rise in temps puts more moisture in the air. RH just tells you how close you are to precipitation. Up here 85 % humidity in winter isn't hard on the body , but it summer it will sap your strength for us northerners because dew point is high. Dew point has more meaning for amount of moisture in the air. Think about this, if the dew point and air temps are equal you have 100% humidity, then when temp increases with dew point constant, RH declines. ;) In winter the low dew point , say -20, will dry and crack your skin because the air is so dry. It's water vapour that moves in and out of wood to achieve equilibrium.

[tughill]

Swampdonkey has the idea...Relative humidity is somewhat out of context...warmer air can hold considerably more moisture than colder air...This is why apple orchards get pruned in late winter...too early pruning in winter will dessicate (dry out) the wound to the tree too much and cause a lot of problems.

As far as setting pitch in pine...it's kinda like 'global warming'....oops...I mean 'climate change' there's lots of scientific evidence here there and everywhere, but that doesn't necessarily make it so.  I just know that many years of experience has taught me that pine can be air dried very successfully, with little or no problem with runny sticky pitch.

The biggest reason to put pine in a kiln is to be sure the powder post beetles are dead, although if the lumber doesn't get up to the proper temp through and through, there still are no guarantees.  99% of powderpost problems can be eliminated by sawing fresh logs, getting rid of all bark, and proper stacking/sticking.

[Meadows Miller]

Swampdonkey has the idea...Relative humidity is somewhat out of context...warmer air can hold considerably more moisture than colder air...This is why apple orchards get pruned in late winter...too early pruning in winter will dessicate (dry out) the wound to the tree too much and cause a lot of problems.

As far as setting pitch in pine...it's kinda like 'global warming'....oops...I mean 'climate change' there's lots of scientific evidence here there and everywhere, but that doesn't necessarily make it so.  I just know that many years of experience has taught me that pine can be air dried very successfully, with little or no problem with runny sticky pitch.

The biggest reason to put pine in a kiln is to be sure the powder post beetles are dead, although if the lumber doesn't get up to the proper temp through and through, there still are no guarantees.  99% of powderpost problems can be eliminated by sawing fresh logs, getting rid of all bark, and proper stacking/sticking.

Your Hitting the Nail on the head there Im with You Mate  ;) ;D I think we should all remember here that Kiln drying timber was invented by larger mills at the turn of last century to reduce lead times and to save some coin were talking cents per bft in todays money and only good if your doing Millions of bft per month  ;) from having a huge amount instock tied up for months in airdry yards ;)
Its all fine for for smaller mills that can tie up say 20 to 50000 bft  at about 20 to 35% of production in a month going into airdry yards  for 4 to 6 weeks in pine and get it down to say 8/12%mc in summer for building timber linning and mouldings My family ran a mill for about 20 years where the use to do about 6 mmbft sawn pa in airdryed pine for flooring ,linning framing and treated stock in Radiata Pine with high Pitch/Sap content w/o any complaints from customers they also had a 7500 bft high temp 220 de + kiln but that mainly got used duing winter to keep lead times down on orders as in summer you could get inch down to 8 % in one to two weeks in avverage conditions 2 inch took 2to3 weeks and it took two to three times as long during winter and still dose

With the whole setting pitch thing it falls into the same catogory as Plastifying heart in timber the center 4x4" that smaller mills cut out for dunnage and pallet timber overhere For Me  ;) the big mills reckon that if you get the heartwood upto 4/450 deg and get it to the point where it plastifys which it basicly turnes into rubber then final dry it from there its goodenough  : to use as studs in house frames where talking 4x2s at 24 inch centers  ???  :

I use to manage the kilns at a large hardwood mill for about 2 years running Mountain Ash at the 45 to 60 odd mbft perday 7 days a week ive also settup and run a high temp Pine kiln but it was basicly a sett and forget thing  ;) :D put in the days production then set the program for what you where running and pull it back out 6 to 24 hours later  too easy ;)

Getting back to Averys First question about the larger sections with anything over  4x4 its very hard with even kilns to get the timber dry anywhere past the a 1 1/2 to 2 inch envolope around the outside in  any size larger than 4x4"wout a large amount of degrade ie splits and cracks and you see that in the sections even when your just trying to get past the 1 1/2 mark due to the fact that your trying to cheat the natrual order of things and push it along  ;) My sugestion would be with the larger sections would be to mill your wall logs in heart free material and stick it out in packs your loader can lift with 1 1/2 x 1 1/2 inch sticks in packs 4' wide app rox and stak them on a good well drained base up on heavy timbers and airdry them untill you want to start building then if you still want to K/d them you can load them on one of your trucks and take them to a mill thats already spent the $100k+ on the rite kiln to do it Mate you might as well get them macined while they are there to  ;) Id allow a settling gap above doors and windows as you will still se some settleing ove the folloing 2 to 4 years after you have it built As they say big sections will nevrer  get below equalibrium but they take a hell of along time to get there Mate

Regards Chris

[SwampDonkey]

I don't know if it's been said yet in here, but it has in many threads. The pitch will be set as long as when it's dried the lumber has reached a higher temperature than where the piece will be used in the building. Often times, even kilned lumber placed on a barn door, dark paint, gets hotter than the kiln and the pitch will bleed. Most kilns around here aren't even hot enough to kill bugs deep in the wood. Six year old pine air dried in the barn blead through white paint on some window molding here, gets hotter in the house in winter than it was in the barn. ;)

White pine is tricky stuff when it comes to fungus. You can't let it lie around very long in the heat and when sawn it needs good air flow. I had what I thought was nice sawn pine. Put it in the barn stickered and the sap stain fungus got it along with the initial infection of ambrosia beetle that will cultivate that stuff like growing lettuce. ;D  Sat in log form all winter until about June. Well from April on, was too long sitting around. Was trying to hire a portable, finally took it to a small stationary and got it done same day, home and stacked.

This............




Will get you this.....



The stain will follow the rings the little %^$%^&'s bore into. You can see the stain is pretty much abrupt to the last ring tunneled into.

They were such nice logs to. :  My grandfather learned the hard way also. Logged a few white pine in winter and yarded across ice and up a gully to get off the river with horses. It laid too long in the warm season, all turned green. Mother was to use it for cupboards. Became firewood. :(