UNfriendly fire folks

[Phorester]

"If smoke from burns is too dangerous and since California seems to be on fire about half the time, perhaps the EPA should demand that California be vacated."

Careful, CRTREEDUDE, they might send'em down your way.

[Jeff]

I suppose we should have let you guys have a chance to debate the deal when someone from that website tried to register a day or so after the link to them was posted above.  The admins decided they were here only to cause a ruckus and the only thing they could have added constructively to the forum would have been zippo. Other then getting our heads scratched by our own hand as we tried to figure out how in the world anyone can be so friggen dense.  So, they were declined.

[Wildland Fire Fighter]

As a certified Prescribed Burner I just have to laugh!  What else can you do.  I do admit that woods smoke can hurt you after years and years of breathing it.  Im not a scientist, and cant say for sure theirs no carcinogenic materials in it or not.  Oh well ima gonna keep burnin until its Illegal.  Of course with OBAMA in office that might be sooner than I realize, but thats a whole other thread .

[tughill]

These people are not dense, or stupid, or shortsighted, or ignorant, even though that's what it seems.

They have an agenda. Plain and simple.  Like good ole' Al Gore, that agenda is to become wealthy, not the same way as you fine folks or I would by working and making things like food or fiber, but by stealing the $$$ from the people like us who do work.  Legal stealing though, in the form of outlawing or taxing campfires.  Or selling such abstract ethereal products as 'carbon credits'.

If the 'scientists' who came up with this stuff admitted that, well the climate just changes all the time, and that's ok because it's what it does....then the big $$ government grants would go to someone else and they'd be out of a job.  Everything in life is about $$$ more or less.  Why are there so many 'scientific studies' that seem to be just dumb and ridiculous?  Because someone gave out some $$ to do them, and it's someone's job.

[ford62783]

lol if that is true then wood stoves would be out lawed and everyone would be dead  lol i like how they add in all the fatalities from house fires in to that and i didnt see a single thing about how the burning of forest lan adds vital nutrtion to the soil and helps stuff grow but hey idiots like them must have gone to harvard or yale welcome to the retard factory is what the page should read lmao

[Ron Scott]

Smoke Brings Fines to USFS in Yakima

Yakima Herald Republic Article Published December 15th by Melissa Sanchez

The Yakima Clean Air Agency levied the maximum possible fine on the Naches Ranger District for smoke from a controlled burn that drifted into the Yakima Valley. Fined $12,000 dollars under the Washington Clean Air Act the Yakima agency issued a statement saying that they hoped that the Forest Service would be more conscientious to be sure that future burns do not degrade air quality in the region. The Forest Service commented that they dispute the agencies authority to regulate the smoke from controlled burns adding that the smoke was unavoidable and entered the valley after weather conditions and the wind direction changed. Forest Service officials did agree to notify the Yakima Clean Air Agency in advance of future controlled burns near Yakima Valley.

Link to Article: http://www.yakima-herald.com/stories/2009/12/15/forest-service-fined-12-000-for-smoke-from-controlled

SAF Policy Update

[Tom]

Whose pockets did the $12,000 come from, Huh?

If it was budgeted money, what else on the budget will suffer to pay the fine, fuel removal?

What will Yakima do with the money?

I don't understand.  :-\

[Ron Scott]

I don't think that the Feds would pay the fine since Federal Law can't be overriden by a lower unit of government, in most cases. If they did, the payment would have to come out of the operating budget of the Ranger District involved. Thus, some of their on the ground management and project work would not be done.

Yakima, would put the fine money in their local slush fund. ;)

[Ron Scott]

Here's another. Very hard for the USFS to get anything done.

Complaints about lack of public comment periods in Santa Barbara County California led to a suit filed against the USFS by Los Padres ForestWatch and the California Chaparral Institute in U.S. District Court. They argued that the tree removal projects in the Santa Barbara Forest as a part of the Tepusquet Fuels Treatment Project were not subject to the proper environmental assessment procedures and did not allow time for public review. The suit is another challenge to the 2003 Healthy Forest Restoration Act which has been challenged before with the Supreme Court issuing an opinion supporting the USFS policies for fuel treatment projects.

Link to Article: http://www.vcstar.com/news/2009/dec/15/us-forest-service-sued-over-tree-removal-project/

SAF Policy Update

[tstex]

Is Al Gore running the CAPA site?  It might make sense since he invented the internet...vertical integraton. 

[madhatte]

Every time we do a prescribed burn, the last check mark we have to fill out is Puget Sound Clean Air Agency.  We also voluntarily notify all local fire stations so that they will be able to field calls from concerned neighbors.  Early morning temperature inversions have stopped many of our burns due to air-quality issues.  Fact is, those of us in the business of managing forests are generally pretty conscientious folks, and it's more than a little insulting to have some gloom-and-doom alarmist try to convince me otherwise.  I'm gonna forward that link to some of my TNC cronies so they can have a good laugh.