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Cutting wind-thrown trees

Started by rocksnstumps, July 24, 2010, 11:40:44 PM

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rocksnstumps

Any advice on good practices to consider when cutting windthrown trees? The ones where they are almost level with the ground where a big rootball is half torn out of the ground but about half is still holding on.
Worried about springpole or similar such term with these kinds of conditions.

We've had a record amount of rain this July and have averaged about 3 thunderstorms a WEEK :o for the last 3 weeks. The soils around here are saturated even on the low ridges and with the high winds there has been a lot of trees pushed over and some just snapped off.

Most of the stuff is about a foot up to 20" dia at about 4 ft up from the root flare. A mix of hard maple, hickory, basswood and even a few nice cherry  >:( that were just starting to get beyond 13" diameters. Of course all the junky ironwood is just plain tuff and hardly a scratch. Even had an apple tree tore up closer to the road. That makes two since another one got squashed.

Last of all, since the roots are still somewhat attached, can I wait till later to get at some of the cleanup and not have problems with staining of the wood. July is just hot even in the woods and with all the rain I've never seen so many skeeters.....

Bobus2003

We've had alot of the same happen here in western SD.. Though i only deal with Ponderosa pine and a few Spruce and Aspen trees.. My biggest issue has been Barberchairs.. Havent had many that would spring up.. But its one of those "look over the tree/situation real good before cutting" kinda deals cause every tree is differnt

John Woodworth

The biggest issue is your safety, there are many theigs to concider and each tree will be diffrent. Be sure first of your escape route, check that it's not tensioned to spring to the side after it's cut' is it hung over other trees or just supported buy the stump. A good rule to follow is to cut the stump equal distance to the length of the roots sticking up wich will prevent it from comming over on you. alot of times you can tell by the root ball what it's going to do, if in doubt cut a long stump.

It doesent hurt to use a longer bar when bucking, gets you a little farther away. When hung over other trees under cut from the bottom just till you feel the bar starting to pinch then go to the top for the final cut, make sure you have enough saw HP and RPM's. Free hanging under cut from the top down and make your final cut from bottom up.

Again check that they arent pre-tensioned to snap to the side or something else isn't going to snap up and hit you.

Good Luck.
Two Garret 21 skidders, Garret 10 skidder, 580 Case Backhoe, Mobile Dimension sawmill, 066, 046 mag, 044, 036mag, 034, 056 mag, 075, 026, lewis winch

OneWithWood

Here's what I do for a windthrown tree that is parallel to the ground, not hung in another tree, but stiil attached via the root ball.

Walk around the tree and look for the branches that are under stress due to the tree resting on the branch or held by surounding vegetation.
Trim and remove all braches that are not touching the ground or another tree (branches with no stress). Larger branches may require multiple cuts.  You want to be able to move the cut branches easily. Remove the branches far enough away that you will not have to work around them.
Walk around the tree again to ascertain if the tree has moved freeing up other branches or creating more stress elsewhere.
Start at the top of the tree and buck.  Each cut may very well be different as the stresses will change so be very careful.  Cut the stressed branches (usually the ones supporting the bole) after the buck cut.  I like to buck in 9 foot lengths trimming the branches away from the log immediately after the log is free of the bole.  For branches that maintain stress even after releasing the log use a bypass cut at the base of the branch.
When you free the butt log the stump may very well stand back up so take that into consideration and plan accordingly.

Use great care and caution.  Wear all the personal protection items (gloves, helmet, glasses, chaps, reinforced toe boots). Take your time and use a sharp chain.
One With Wood
LT40HDG25, Woodmizer DH4000 Kiln

Rob-IL

You ALWAYS have to watch out for the possibility of the stump wad returing to its original position as it often does. A few years ago 2 or 3 children were crushed when their father cutoff a blown over tree in their yard. The children were playing in the hole from the uprooted stump and you can imagine the tragady that occured when the father made the deadly cut!!! I can't remember where or what state it happened in but it should have never happened!!!!
I grew up around logging but chose to be a heavy equipment mechanic for several years. Later in life my interest changed so my cousin and myself went into logging on our own in 1988.

Randy88

A few points here, have a forester look at it first, he has experience and can give recommendations, after that.  How many trees do yo have like that and are you concerned with the root ball after its cut or just to get the tree off of it?  Do you care what happens to the root ball afterwards or are there so many it makes it iimpossible to get around the timber at all?    Are there so many trees like that are you concerned about getting them all cut before the wood goes bad?  I guess its a lot of variables but I'd recommend starting with the trees that would make a descent log and leave the rest go for now and of the ones that make logs, I'd take the worst first, totally down, broke off, damaged, and no hope for survival.  Now I'm under the impression your wanting to do it yourself and can only get so much done a day or month kinda thing.    The smaller stuff thats not totally flat and won't make a log might survive, they can take a lot, all I'm saying is if they live you can worry about them at a later date and give them time its not like in a year all the barks off them and in three years its too dagerous to cut kinda thing.   I don't care who you are don't work alone in a timber that has a lot of trees like that expecially if your not an experienced logger, I'm not as experienced as most  I've only been in and around trees for most of my life but I don't do it for a living either but I never go alone and I've always got a lot of equipment along with me, meaning, skidsteer, excavator, dozer, etc and if something would happen the other person has something to help out with and to get help.   I've known people who have been injured and killed and accidents do happen and a blow down is about as bad as it gets in my opinion things are unpredictable.  

What these guys are telling you about tension and things pinned and how they react, caution is the key, in a blowdown situation I take heavy equipment and depening on how bad it is I've even taken them to the ground first before cutting for safety reasons and as of today, nobody on my watch has been seriously injured or killed or even close.    About 15 years ago we had a tornado go through a small 6 acre timber and left the worst mess I'd ever seen the problem was we had to go through it to get to farmland on the other side and we had livestock pastured around it so we needed it cleaned up. The tension on things were unimaginable, there were trees 24 inches in diameter literally twisted around each other from top to the bottom they made 2-6 complete revolutions and still stood upright, we had 7-10 trees twisted and tangled so bad you couldn't tell where the stumps were attached at, it was unbelievable the destruction to an entire oak timber all over 20 inches in diameter and up to 36 inches in diameter.  The tension on things were unreal, unstable and unpredictable.   We went at clearing it and piling it up and buning it but it was real slow go.   We spent more time trying to figure out before hand what would react to every cut than actually cutting.    Looking back it was the best leaning experiece I've ever had.    The words of wisdom I've got are, take a helper or cutting buddy, some equpment even if its a small tractor and logchains, patience, spend a lot of time studying them and making sure things don't spring back and hit or kill you, and don't get the I gotta this done today itis, theres always tomorrow.   Have two chain saws, plenty of wedges, sharp chains, protective clothing like has been mentioned, a cell phone in case of trouble and tell a thired someone when your going to be home and make sure your home by then, I've seen it happen when a buddy goes and he gets hurt trying to get the first guy out and noboy knows where they are at, sounds stupid but things happen.    Good luck and be safe.

Autocar

More then likely the root balls will flop back into the whole even this coming winter. I have cut a number of tordado jos plus straught line wind, like everyone else has mentioned look them over real good. There are so many parrells to consider when cutting this type of job. Tension,widow makers,veins going into another tree a fellow can go on and on. Make sure you have someone with you if you go it on your own,we can give advice all day but hands on is about the only way your learn. Small leaners can be tricky because when you put a notch in theres not enough wood to bore across then swing her out. If your real concerned about barber chairing wrap a log chain above your cut line this will hold it togather,Ive done this a number of times where you have a V fork for a top I put a chain as high as I can get then when it hits the ground it dosen't split all the way back to the butt. And I have even wrapped it above the cut line so the shock load hitting won't bust her apart, ash is bad about spilting when you have a V crouch. You can never be to safe so if you don't feel comforable cutting them get someone that is and then learn from watching then later on your feel better about tackling such a job.
Bill

rocksnstumps

Thanks for all the good advice. I have a buddy I can cut with, I'll just ask that he leave his younger kids at home as usually they get delegated to filling up the trailer with firewood (at least the smaller stuff anyway). Guess I'm going to have to get some chainsaw chaps for using in warmer weather. The pants I normally use are going to be a little toasty since I try to limit firewood duties to winter time

The area is the upper part of the ridge close to the fenceline, probably a little over 5 acres worth and has a bulldozed logging trail going up the hill from years ago, once off to the sides it's rather rocky. I can approach from both the top and bottom with a small tractor. The south side of the ridge was a pasture for many years so coming from the top is probably easier even if it's the long way around. Of course the trail is log jammed at the moment however.

The trees worth trying to get some logs out of are the ones torn up by the roots. They were the bigger trees and were sturdier to begin with. The firewood category ones usually snapped off at some defect or split off at some Y or crook.

Had some logging done a couple of years ago to salvage some elm dying off from DED. Interestingly I noticed several of the trees in one area snapped off 10-15 ft in the air where you could tell the bark had been scrapped off from the previous logging done. Just goes to show that doing a good job on the trees you leave behind is probably as important as the ones the logger wanted to salvage.

NWwoodsman

Haven't dealt with much wind blown timber, But for trees that like to barberchair, Western red alder is the worst out here. We use the biggest fastest saw we have and put a chain around the tree right above the cut so it can't split in half, also saves the timber from being split in half.

Just a thought.

rocksnstumps

Well, talked with the DNR forester today and sounds like it might be awhile before he has a chance to look at anything. He was the individual who wrote my Managment Plan (the last year the state still offered to help with that). He has some much bigger, more valuable timber areas to work on in the near term. That area of the state has lots of sugar maple and a big concern with staining loss during the summer, much more so than any other tree according to him. Guess I'll just slowly work on getting the trail opened up. Don't think he was in too big of a hurry to get here and have to walk around. His response was "Give me a call when I can drive up the hill and than I'll try to find the time" ::)

Skiddah

Safety is the biggest concern for cutting blow downs.  We had a tornado go through the woodlot where I'm working now and everything was a twisted heap.  Large pine was broken off 6 to 8 feet above the stump (eliminating the good logs  >:( ) and the tops were strewn about with no real rhyme or reason. We were fortunate enough to have a feller buncher to take care of cleaning up the mess which made things a lot safer.  Just be careful about your pressures.  Blow down work shouldn't be treated the same way you would cutting for production, work slower to ensure that you don't overlook anything.  I attended a logging workshop with a gentleman who had his hip crushed when cutting off a blowdown.  Instead of the rootball rolling back into the hole where it came from, it pitched forward and pinned him to the ground.  Fortunately the landowner found him quickly (he was working alone) and was able to get the log off him with his skidder.  So to sum it all up, watch your pressures, use equipment if it is available to you, and try to work with a partner if at all possible.

Jeff

Welcome to the Forestry Forum Skiddah.  :)
I can change my profile okay. No errors. If you can,t remove all the extra info in other fields and try.

Tim/South

There is a lot of good advice already offered.
We removed downed trees in our community for months after a tornado this past spring.
One things we learned that helped us with stump removal is to use the leverage of the log to twist the stump and break it lose.
We had a hard time removing the stumps that were still attached on the bottom side, especially if the root ball stood up when we cut it lose.
We began to push the log on a circle (with a tractor or Bobcat) while it was still attached to the stump.
On a few larger ones, we rolled the root ball out of the hole before cutting it free.

Skiddah

Thanks for the welcome Jeff!  I'm glad to have found this site.  Hopefully I can offer some good advice and pickup some new tricks along the way.

Tim, sounds like you guys found a good way of doing it.  Tornado damage is pretty tricky right?  I really think using heavy equipment like you guys and we did, is the key.  A few thousand pounds of hydraulic force goes a long way in keeping yourself safe.   ;D

The trickiest part of cutting a blown down lot is you're presented with a giant mess in front of you.  Often there's no good place to start so a lot of guys will just plunge right in.  You really need to take the time to safely map out your course of action.  When cutting one tree, you need to see what's on top of it, under it, next to it, etc.  Often you need to look up to 100'+ in all directions to see everything that was impacted by the wood that was blown down.  Also be very very very careful of the timber that is still standing on the lot.  Often there are widowmakers all through the tops of the trees left behind.  Also they tend to have unstable rootballs or other damage from the storm, especially if there was a lot of water in the storm.

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