NEW TO THE FORUM AND NEED ADVISE!

badbird347 · September 21, 2011, 12:15:58 PM

I'm in the market to heat my house with a renewable resource. I have got alot of info on the differant ways of accomplishing this. but need some real world results. My first look at a OWB was my brother in law's CB 5036, it is a great unit. I like the fact that he puts whole unsplit logs (20 in) dia. init. but I live in NH. and they require gasifier units now (was looking at CB 1400, and empyre pro 200). I liked the CB build quality over the pro 200, but then the cost and maint. have got me looking elsewhere. I have looked into pellet and wood stove inserts for my fire place but the air circulation(getting heat to my basement and upstairs), and burn time of the wood stove make it an assitance and not a full replacement to my oil consumpsion.
by the way I'm heating 2000 sq. ft 2 story cape and hopefully my 2 car garage (house at 68 deg. and garage at 50 deg. )
I just found a little advertisement that says indoor wood boilers don't have to meet phase 2 stanards and that meens that I can go with a unit that will takes unsplits and less maint. I was looking at a thermo control model 2000. installed in my garage and plumbed directly to my oil boiler return( less parts and install cost). also was thinking it sould be enclose with fire resistant dry wall. any one that has experince with this boiler would be great but also looking for other to chime in Thanks in advance.

buckgrunt · September 21, 2011, 12:34:57 PM

Badbird,

I also live in NH (Candia) and I am going on my 2nd year with my CB E-Classic 2300. I had no problems with it. The maintenance is not really that bad. Just keep the air holes clear by scraping them once a day. Once a week I clean out the RC of the accumulated ash. Once every 2 weeks I clean the heat exchangers. It is a "science" and there is learning curve, but once you understand how it works, there are no issues. You definately need to burn dry wood (at least 6 months cut/split) and not green wood. 20 inch wide logs does seem a bit too much for the 2300 (and my back !!), but I have gotten away with 15 inch wide pieces. My heating space is very similar to yours and I burned 10 cord last winter, which was cold one. I started my furnace last year on 9/15....too early. This year, I will start it on 10/1....

My boiler is outside, but enclosed in a 3 sided-wood shed that holds my entire 10 cord plus space for my generator. Therefore, when I go outside to load it, I am under cover and not exposed to the elements.

I do not believe that CB makes/sells the 2300 anymore. There is a new and improved boiler, the 2400, which is similar in size, but it is my understanding that they have improved the design.

stumper · September 21, 2011, 04:00:31 PM

I also have a Eclassic 2300 and I live in central Maine. I heat 3000 square feet plus DHW. I think you may find that the 1400 is to small for your needs but check with a good dealer. I know that Farmer 4 Hire out of Conway NH is an excellent dealer.

I will say that I think the 2300 went to market much to soon. There have been a ton of issues with them, and I think I have had all but the leaky seam. That said I understand that the 2400 is a good unit. They still take more maintenance then a old style boiler but do not seem to have the issues the 2300 had. If I were in the market for a boiler that is the one I would pick.

badbird347 · September 21, 2011, 05:32:02 PM

stumper. I did consult my local CB dealer about the size and he said the 1400 would have about the same out put as the old 5036 and would be enough for what I need. he also told me I sould have about 5-6 cord cut dry and split per winter I see that buckgrunt you used 10 cord I hope that the differance between the 1400 & 2400 is the amout of wood you used because i'm having a hard time with 5-6 cords needed (level space to store the wood). also the cost of the OWB is high, which is why I was looking at the none gasifer (indoor) boiler. that can plumb directly into oil boiler. Thanks again.

bull · September 21, 2011, 06:35:11 PM

New York Wood Boiler, I heat 1200 sq ft home with 4 cords of seasoned wood forced hot water, has worked well sine 1992 installed new....

buckgrunt · September 21, 2011, 07:47:48 PM

Good Luck Badbird. I was not surprised at the 10 cords I used up last winter as previously, I was buring 5 to 6 cords using a regular "in home" wood stove and the ends of the house and the upper flloor remained cold during those days when the thermometer hit 15 degrees or below. Plus, I have 2 teen-agers who each take two - 15 minute hot showers daily. Now I keep the whole house at 70 and there are no cold spots. I do beleive that an outdoor wood furnace would be a tough sell for someone who has to buy firewood. I log my own firewood and therefore it is "free". Had I known that the 2400 was coming out in a year or 2, I probably would have waited.

upsnake · September 21, 2011, 08:36:58 PM

I have a CB 1400, heat 2000 sq feet in Michigan. Last year was the first year and i didn't get it up and going until January, so I not 100% sure on wood usage, but my best guess is that I am going to go through 5-6 cord.

I am happy with the burn times, I load it up in the morning when I leave for work and then about 12 - 13 hours later fill it up again when i get home. (it is not empty then, that is just about when i get home so it make sense to fill it then.

I have had it go 18-19 hours in 0 degree weather before.

I would suggest staying away from the 5036 or the 6048, or any other non gasser if getting more than 5-6 cords is going to be a challenge. That was the main reason i went with the e classic.

My older brother has a 6048, and while he has a big heat load, (indoor pool and pool room), he goes through a ton of wood.

Bro. Noble · September 21, 2011, 09:13:48 PM

While I don't know anything about the boilers that you are talking about, I do have experience with an inside air to air furnace and a Taylor outside furnace. The first was in our basement and gave us troublefree service for about 30 years. It was more efficient than the outside boiler but was a lot more particulaqr about the wood that it used. We got a lot of smoke and dirt through the ducts especially if the wood was a little green or had any boxelder in it We had bugs,ants, and even a family of ground rattlers come into the house with the wood. If the house got too warm you had to open the doors and windows to cool the house down. The biggest advantage was that you could stoke it in comfort even if it was dark , cold , rainy, or windy outside.

Our new house has the outside boiler and probably uses more wood, but it's a bigger house and also heats the water. If I've got a good fire going I put on green wood if that's what I've got. I may have to clean it more often with green wood, but the mess is all outside and easy work. The temp in the house is exactly how we want it. Both furnaces have electric backups that kick in if the wood fire gets too low. I always planned to build a roof over the owb and wood storage area, but never have so sometimes have to break ice off of the firewood and stoke the furnace in harsh weather. We milk some stoopid cows though, so I'm used to being miserable :D :D

martyinmi · September 21, 2011, 10:29:10 PM

Do your self a favor and check out the designs of more than just one brand of OWB. Myself and two of my friends searched for a long time before we decided on the Portage & Main Optimizer 250. Their method of heat transfer has been around for more than 150 years, and the simplistic design means almost no wear items to replace. I've had mine running for two weeks or so and I'm very happy with how the boiler functions. There were times that it wouldn't cycle for more than three hours, and usually within just a minute or two it would start gasifying when it called for heat. They are EPA Phase 2 qualified. Look at their list under Piney Mfg. They are not the least expensive gassers out there, but I think you get a real good bang for your buck with them.

Holmes · September 21, 2011, 11:17:59 PM

Welcome to the FF badbird347.. I like the idea of putting the boiler in the garage and piping it to the house system. Make sure you put in a good chimney that you can clean. Once the garage is insulated the boiler will do a good job of heating the garage space with its own heat loss. You can add a fan coil blower unit to make it warmer. You will have a warm place to stoke the fire and your wood if stored in the garage will get additional drying time before burning it.
The most likely chance for fire will be a chimney and flue fire if you use the older type boiler that does not have gasification . The other chance of fire is when the loading door is not closed properly and you get a run away fire inside the boiler. A gasifier will be a lot more efficient and you will burn less wood. A gasifying indoor boiler will be a good choice. If you spend the money now for the better boiler you will use less wood in the future. You could add a room off the back or side of the garage and put the boiler in that room if you don't want to lose garage space, just don't make it a small room.
Nothing wrong with fire resistant drywall , if your garage is attached to the house there should be a fire wall between the 2 buildings. Holmes

thecfarm · September 22, 2011, 06:40:08 AM

Welcome to the FF Badbird. I always like to go bigger than what I need. I get tired of the text book salesman and me dumb enough to believe them. In a perfect world they are right. But my world is not perfect. I looked at OWB for years before I bought one. I was even so bad I would see one at a house and stop in to ask them about it. I like having all the mess outside now. Don't be afraid of the maintenance issue. Looks to me if you keep up on it,it's easy.

muckamuck · September 22, 2011, 08:54:50 AM

I would think hard about putting a furnace in the garage. Yes you will get more heat, but I'm a messy guy and my wife would go nuts with all the bark, sawdust, limbs and sand and insects that is hauled in with wood. My woodpile yard looks like a war zone. She does not mind in the back yard 40 yards from the house and out of sight. Plus to heat you need dry wood, so I have to have 2 years of wood stacked and drying which takes a lot of space. No problem outside but where are you putting your car?? Now consider the blasts of smoke that come out of the door (and sometimes flames). How would you like that type of fire in your garage/house? So... if you are meticulous and clean type of guy and like to feed the fire in stocking feet, maybe. If you are like me, slip on boots and go outside at breakfast and dinnertime. As mentioned above the best is an outbuilding so you are out of the weather.
-Muckamuck

doctorb · September 22, 2011, 09:21:09 AM

I am with muckamuck. Mine is in a shed 300 feet away. It's out of sight from my house, and I can stack 16 cords around it. Completely out of the weather for loading and maintenance. No mess in the house. No smoke near the house (very little smoke anyway with gassification). All the work with the wood is away from the house so I don't make a "splittin' mess" that's right next to my home and garage.

I do not think that OWB's are generally cleared for indoor use. I am not sure about whether a garage falls under the indoor or outdoor category, but, for safety reasons and the reasons described above, I would be reluctant to put one in the garage attached to my home.

711ac · September 22, 2011, 07:54:13 PM

Badbird,
Do a little research on the gassification thing, It's more about burning efficency and less wood than it is about the emissions, at least for me, but if less wood smoke is a result in the process, that too is a good thing. I have a "Wood Gun" from AHS in PA. they make them there and it is a indoor "gasser" that I have it in an enclosed/attached purposely built room. It could be easily put in an attached garage or a small out bldg.
I heat a 40x80 shop/house (radiant in floor) and used about 8 full cords last winter (my first with this set up) and spent last winter in the shop in a tee shirt. This year I'm going to cut back the shop temps to 50ish to see how much wood I can save. As for operating the wood boiler, it only takes about 15 min a week for me and it runs round the clock. I have some equipment that will move around my wood crates that will almost hold a cord of wood that I move from my wood split/stack area to the boiler, so that really makes it easy. But back to the "gasser" thing, anytime that you can have a 1800-2000 deg. fire (needed to burn all the wood gasses) and have a 400-450 deg stack temp, you know that you are deffinetly burning all the available "fuel" in your wood! Even if you have free wood you sitll need to handle it. As for throwing in 20" chunks into an OWB, that too will have an effect on your heat output, there is a lot of technique involved in operating any wood fired boiler efficently vs. just the -- it'll burn anything mentality. Good luck! smiley_chop

Dean186 · September 23, 2011, 11:54:16 AM

Welcome Badbird,

This will be my third year heating with an E-Classic 1400. I have been a member of this forum for a while and have been talking about my E-Classic 1400. A search for "Classic 1400" will take you to my posts as well as others that are talking about the 1400.

I plan to write an extensive review sometime this winter. Until then, I have this based on my dealings only and two years of use. Scale of 1 to 5.

Satisfaction with furnace: 5

Satisfaction with company: 5

Satisfaction with dealer: 5

Satisfaction with heat output: 5

Satisfaction with emissions: 4

The E-Classic 2400 was not released when I made my purchase. My choice was between the 2300 and the 1400. My dealer stated to me, if the 1400 couldn't heat my house he would work out a very favorable trade to the 2400 when it came out. I personally believe the 1400 is underestimated by most in its ability to heat. Last winter, here in the Colorado mountains, we had all time record lows of -30 degrees for almost 3 days. The furnace keep up with the demands. My dealer has successfully replaced Classic 6048 with the E-Classic 1400.

We live in a very well insulated 3,000 square foot above ground and 1,400 sq ft in the basement house and keep a two car garage above freezing with our 1400. I would highly recommend this stove.

However, if I were buying today, I would buy the 2400, not because the 1400 won't heat our house, but because we like to be gone from the house for a couple of days at a time. Thirty six hours is the maximum amount of time the wood last in the 1400 in average winter temperatures and 24 hours is more the norm. It is a situation that comes up only about one or two times a winter for us, so it is no big deal. I could get a neighbor to throw wood into the stove. If I had the 2400, I could increase that time.

My main advice: Spend the time to make the best installation possible. It will pay off big over time.

badbird347 · September 25, 2011, 11:14:16 AM

:)First let me say WOW YOU GUYS ARE QUICK TO RESPOND! I'm a member of some other forums, on none related subjects and they don't have the enthusiasm that I see here. That being said I have made up my mind, I'm getting the CB 1400 based on what UPSNAKE and DEAN had to say, its great to here from people that using the same product and model for real world results thank you. I also have to say thank you to every one for the warnings and tips on their past experinces. this being my first go round with this type of heating I will be here for a while and calling on you all again so thank you in advance.
My next big problem is I have a small space next to the house where the boiler is going but the wood will not be close because drying and space would not be optimal. so the wood will be stored up hill on what my friends have dubbed the mountain. I was wonding if any one else has this situation and what was the salution. I have thought about constucting a slide of some sort to get wood from up the hill to the boiler. other than that it will be alot of transporting . :-\that would get old quick. P.S. I wish they had spell check on here I know I spelled some words wrong sorry.

upsnake · September 25, 2011, 11:34:17 AM

Can't help with the slide, on thought thought (and I am sure you have already but throwing it out there), when I put the owb in I ended up putting it about 110 feet from the house, right off of the turn around pad in the driveway. That way i can back the truck down the drive way and unload the wood right from the driveway right next to the boiler.

Me personally, I would rather walk the 100 from the house to the boiler and the few feet from the boiler to the wood rather than the other way around.

muckamuck · September 29, 2011, 09:22:55 AM

I agree with upsnake. You want the wood stacked once, next to the boiler so with a few steps with a wheelbarrow or cart you are done. You do not want to have to move it any distance a second time unless you are bored and want some exercise in the deep snow.

doctorb · September 29, 2011, 01:14:04 PM

At the beginning of OWB use, there's a little romance about doing the work and heating your own home without oil/gas/electricity. If you would like to keep that good feeling, don't have the work of filling your 1400 be burdensome. So the two posts prior to this one say it all. I would hold off on any purchase of an OWB until you figure this part of it out. You are going to be hatin' life if your fuel is not convenient to the stove.