CB EC-2400 High Altitude Fire Problems Solved

boilerman101 · February 11, 2012, 12:15:32 AM

Bob, how many sections have you been running it with?
How close to your house do you have your furnace?
How many feet high is the peak of your house roof?
Are there lots of tall trees near by and if so how close?

Previously I suggested you may have wet wood, but you stated it was 12-14% dry, as it had been cut for over a year and split for 2 months. Also that the quarters were 4"-8" thick...that means those logs were 8" to 16" or better in diameter. If they were still in log form and you just bucked and split them 2 months ago, there is no way they could be that dry...12-14% moisture would be like kiln dried. I've been burning wood for over 15 years, inside and outside and it would have to be split and stacked for at least 2 years to get it down to those levels. It would be very light when you lift it and the ends would be cracking...Based on my experience and your wood discription, I still think some of your struggles are caused by trying to burn non seasoned wood. It can be done, but it will require more tending and patience. My wood for next season is already cut, split and stacked. The sooner you can get at least one year ahead, the better your gasifier will perform. I look forward to hearing your answers to my questions above as well and the CB engineers insights on adding more chimney. I take it you must have it positioned very close to a tall building?

albirk · February 11, 2012, 06:11:18 AM

boilerman 101 it think you are dead on with the wet wood i just split some wood last week 24 to 36" the tree has been down for 7years blocked up 2 years ago and when i was splitting the water was still coming out the wood in block form takes a long time to season

Bob Lentz · February 11, 2012, 10:36:12 AM

My Chimney is about 15 feet from the back wall of the house. I originally had 1 section of pipe. I added the 2nd and it seems to be working better. I'm going to add a third section. In order to get over the highest point of my roof i'd have to build 40' of chimney - not going to happen. I have some 80ft doug firs about 20' away from the side of the unit, across a driveway.

It appears that it is a draw/drafting issue - i'm just glad i got to talk to the engineer at CB. My dealer never even thought of that.

If it requires me to get up 40' or so, then i'm going to actually move the stove this summer. I'm going to build a firewood storage/splitting area about 100' from my house and i'd just pour a new pad to place the stove there. I will have to trench and bury some more pex but if that's what it takes, so be it.

Dean186 · February 11, 2012, 11:30:49 AM

I have also been wanting to say what boilerman101 just stated; because, wet wood could be causing all the problems.

I believe you stated you had a moisture meter, correct? Have you verified that it is reasonably accurate? You could do this by checking it with another meter, or for a crude test, measure a 2x4 somewhere in the house and maybe a wet sponge and... and see if the meter reading makes sense.

Our furnace has problems getting into high burn mode when the wood in the firebox is 20% moisture and above.

All of our firewood is below 10% and some of it is below 5% (the lowest my meter will measure).

I certainly wouldn't move the furnace without eliminating all other possibilities.

Dean186 · February 11, 2012, 11:31:16 AM

Below are a few photos of how our stove sets close to the house and a steep hill side. Photos were taking winter of 2012. The wood pile seen in the photos is for the upcoming winter (2013/14) and has been there split for a year and a half already. One has to look hard to see the furnace in the second photo to the far right.

mrwood · February 11, 2012, 12:07:37 PM

Well I know this is off topic. But VERY nice house dean. Your not looking to adopt by any chance are you?

Dean186 · February 11, 2012, 12:37:43 PM

Thanks Mrwood,

I have always been hesitant to show photos of our house for a multitude of reasons. In the beginning because, I was afraid some would say, the OWB sets to close to the house and hill side to draft. Others might say - that stove will never heat that much house. After 3 seasons (24 months) of use, I now no that neither is true. In the beginning, my dealer felt like neither would be a problem.

I have included the photo in this post to show that drafting may not be Bob's problem. After all, the unit is a forced air furnace, a pressurized system.

At our location, when the wind blows, it blows 80% of the time in a favorable direction. When the wind is not favorable, it pushes the smoke/heat wave down and does not cause a function problem for us. Other installation may vary.

Dean

Bob Lentz · February 11, 2012, 12:52:48 PM

Having added the 2nd section of pipe, we seem to have run all night w/ no issues.
Will know more tomorrow as we added the section yesterday around noon.
So, today/tonight will be our first full 24 hour test with the plug in place, every 8 minute pulse for 50 seconds.

I have picture but can't figure out how to imbed it.

mrwood · February 11, 2012, 12:58:30 PM

Now I have a classic version. So setup is different but my unit is kind of tunneled betweent my house and a huge 100yr old pine. I an about 22 ft from the house and 15 away from the pine and I have no draft issues. The only problem I have is due to the tunnel, the smoke blows in some unfavorable places and patterns. But I have learned to load my furnace at night so that the first 12 hrs of heavy smoke are not bothersome. By the time the wife and I are movi g around in the morning the smoke is so much less that you hardly notice it.

Dean186 · February 11, 2012, 01:06:49 PM

Quote from: Bob Lentz on February 11, 2012, 12:52:48 PM
Having added the 2nd section of pipe, we seem to have run all night w/ no issues.
Will know more tomorrow as we added the section yesterday around noon.
So, today/tonight will be our first full 24 hour test with the plug in place, every 8 minute pulse for 50 seconds.

I have picture but can't figure out how to imbed it.

Bob, I thought all the E-Classics came with two sections of stove pipe and was the recommendation. Did your stove come with two and only one was installed? If so, that doesn't sound good. You may now have different results with two sections installed.

Bob Lentz · February 11, 2012, 01:11:44 PM

Here is a picture of my OWB location.

The wind normally blows left-to-right as you look at the picture. I'm thinking of adding one more section which would get the chimney top right below the top rail of the upper deck. we have a very consistent down-valley flow of air so i'm not too worried about the smoke up there on the deck of the master bed room.

I like it here because we store the wood stacked up behind it and the loading is under cover and out of the snow.

Bob Lentz · February 11, 2012, 01:38:33 PM

Dean,

It did come w/ 2 sections of pipe, but i only installed one because i wanted to keep the smoke below the upper deck.
Bad mistake on my part - but you live and learn. My dealer basically just delivered the stove and dropped it off because i was doing the install myself. He never said anything about a minimum of two sections to make it work. What's worse, he never asked me if i had installed both sections. I guess he figured i would have installed both since he delivered both.

doctorb · February 11, 2012, 01:52:30 PM

Bob-

I don't want to be overly critical of your OWB placement, but being that close to your beautiful house is not what I would have suggested. Sparks do come out of the chimney, in addition to smoke, and the house that close can certainly have a negative effct on the draft in your flue. I think your concept of keeping the smoke under the first floor is understandable, but not practical.

If you look at the EPA best practices page (easy google) you'll see that the stack is supposed to be higher than any hearby occupied dwelling. Your picture brings a new meaning to "nearby dwelling".

I know you are not going to like to read this, but that is not a safe placement, IMO. I would carefully use it in that location for the remainder of this winter and then move it. I really would.

Please take my comments in the constructive manner in which they were intended. I hope that I am over-analyzing this, and others find it an acceptable set-up. But my gut tells me that I am not alone in this critique.

Bob Lentz · February 11, 2012, 04:32:48 PM

DoctorB,

I agree with your assessments and concerns. The placement of this thing was an afterthought and this first winter is mainly an experiment.
Since adding the 2nd stack, the stove is running more consistent. I have plenty of "extra" btus to throw at my snow melt loop and DHW. So this summer will be busy adding another heat exchanger and moving the boiler.

Woo hoo.

boilerman101 · February 11, 2012, 05:16:58 PM

Bob, glad to hear your are now having more success. I had no idea you were trying run your E Classic with only 1 chimney section. I'm pretty sure since CB sends 2 sections, they were designed to be run that way. I can also see drafting issues with your placement that close to your home and under your deck. Glad to hear you are going to take Doc B's advice and more it farther away. I agree and would not be comfortable with your current location. I would not load the furnace in the middle of a burn cycle with a strong wind blowing and bypass open. That is the only time I have seen sparks come out of my chimney. Since you intend to burn the rest of this heating season, I can also see adding at least one more section if you continue to have issues with draw.

Bob Lentz · February 11, 2012, 06:38:08 PM

I'm not too worried about fire from sparks. I had to build my house to standards for wild fire mitigation. Everything around the stove below the deck is concrete, stone and stucco. The underside of all deck and all the eaves have been preped with fire-retardant and the deck above is all trex. In fact, i have more of a worry starting a forest fire up here than burning my house down!

But, i am gonna plan to move the stove.