Squaring Cedar Logs

[YellowHammer]

Got an odd call for a job today from a company in Atlanta, about 4 hours away.  They wanted me to square up cedar logs, 18 to 30 inches in diameter, didnt want any side lumber, no particular dimension of the final cant, they just wanted "big and square as possible."  As I was trying to think how to charge for something like this, they said they could start sending the log trucks to me next week and asked how many trucks loads I could do in a day 
I told them I might could do a few to get my feet wet, but would have to figure out what to charge.  Any ideas? I guess I could charge by the cant, even though they would be random sizes.  Maybe by the bdft, hr?  I am a little concerned wondering why no other mill between Huntsville and Atlanta would take the job.  Normally that means its a sucker job.  Wonder why they would need random sized square cedar cants?  Has anybody else run into a job like this?
Thanks,
YH

[beenthere]

Interesting. The cants being different sizes would be fun to load back on the truck  -  seems to me.  :

I'd think start out charging by the hour. Then you can go at your pace. Change if there is a need to later.

[thecfarm]

They must have a market for the whatever size cants. Does seem odd,but they seem to want the cants. Just wonder how they pay too. I mean once a month after you keep calling them for 4 weeks straight.  :

[kelLOGg]

Yes, sorta, but not that big. I have a job from time to time with the owner of several old tobacco warehouses that have been converted to upscale stores. They have lots of reclaimed pine beams up to 12 x 12 that are pretty roughed up and painted which thay want resawn to 2-by material or just re-squared by sawing off about 1 quarter inch off all sides. The final size is not very important in some cases. They sell them to builders for restaurants, homes, woodworkers, etc. Some of the beams are very pitchy with very tight grain and beautiful. They load and unload via their forklift. They scan for tramp metal and pay for blades that hit what they miss. I charge by the hour. Maybe I will be eating out at a restaurant and recognize something I have sawn. ;)
Bob

[ladylake]

Sure sounds like a by the hour job, no side lumber on big logs there will be a lot of waste.    Steve

[Cedarman]

Yellowhammer,
I am always curious about unique cedar especially if it is ERC. 
I have not heard of that quantity of very large cedar anywhere in the country.  Usually has bad hearts when it is that big.
Any chance you could go look at some of the logs?
How long are they?
Could they send you pictures?

[Magicman]

The only way that I would price it is Hourly Rate.

Are the slabs going back or are you required to dispose of them?  There could be a by-product.

[Banjo picker]

Better have something in mind for the slabs or you will be swamped...Do they care if you reclaim the side lumber for yourself..?  Banjo

[Chuck White]

Absolutely, by the sounds of it, that job should have a lot of side lumber.

I would charge the customer an hourly rate.

[fat olde elf]

I can't wait to see how this plays out............Sounds like you will be producing a lot of flitches. Let us know what happens......Say your prayers

[YellowHammer]

Well, it gets even stranger, and then got way out of my league real quick   .....I called the company this morning and got in touch with someone who seemed to be in charge, a lady, and also her son, to ask them some questions and get more info.  They said not to worry, they would be at my house in North Alabama in a few minutes!  They got my address from my webpage, and had left Atlanta about dawn and drove about 4 hours just to talk to me.
It turns out that they are trying to expand their startup lumber business in which they ship, or plan to ship, cants of several species of wood, including cedar, overseas to India, in shipping containers.  So that's why they only cared about the cants, because they would package better in the containers.  They had no interest in the side lumber, didn't care what happened to it, they couldn't ship it so didn't want it.   They have several big time mills, loggers and kiln operators already lined up, but were looking to recruit intermediate sawyers to fill in the gaps and get a diversified supply chain.  Seems they were not kidding about sending truckloads of logs my way, except it wasn't all going to be cedar, it would have been a lot of everything.  They are looking for sawyers, loggers, and kiln operators who are wanting to get bigger (much bigger).
Well, I told them I was flattered, but that I was about as big and busy as I wanted to get, at least for the time being.  I'm all for growing my business, but this was way more than I wanted to bite off.  They asked if I might know other sawyers who might be interested in their proposal, so if anyone wants to have their contact info, send me a PM, and I'll pass it along. 
Folks, as always, I appreciate the advice and input, it really helps to have knowledgeable people like you that I can rely on to give me the straight answers.
I'll have to chalk this one up as one for the record books.  I will always wonder what would have happened if I accepted their offer, would I have gotten rich or would I have gone broke.
YellowHammer

[MHineman]

I will always wonder what would have happened if I accepted their offer, would I have gotten rich or would I have gone broke.

I would not like to have more than a modest % (probably 25% or less) with any one customer.
  I think you did the right thing to pass on that deal.
  Even with no evil plan in place, you could easily get screwed if the customer's business failed after you invested a bunch of money.

[5quarter]

Just a thought, but have you considered subbing out the majority of the sawing? Do you have two or three other sawyers in the area you can rely on? It could be quite profitable for you with minimal exposure and you could provide some extra job security for yourself and and others. if the Co. fails, no one is overly exposed and the only real risk is to the exporters. like I said, just a thought.

[Cedarman]

My gut reaction is that their business is doomed to failure.
How can they buy logs, throw away the best wood to make cants and come out ahead?  And the extra shipping costs?
If I got wind of the market they have, I would undercut them on price because I would make money from the side boards to offset the decrease in price of cants.
Logs are a commodity and most mills have to pay about the same price, so no advantage there.

[MotorSeven]

Interesting. The cants being different sizes would be fun to load back on the truck  -  seems to me.  :

And then how much dead space would you have in a shipping container with a mix match of cant sizes?

Also are they shipping green lumber and sealing it up in containers for a month or two?...Yuk.

[shelbycharger400]

like above said..

I have yet also to see any erc thats solid above 18 in dia.     all the 28 to 32 in dia ones i dropped... were hollow the first 4 ft.  ( from a 1906 planted tree line)

[Bogue Chitto]

I had a customer bring a ERC to my mill.  It was almost 30 inches.  I told him to come and get it .  It was hollow, packed with dirt, poison ivy growing in the cracks, and was hard to turn on the mill because of all the knots.