How much do you charge?

[Sawdust Lover]

 say_what

[YellowHammer]

There is one guy not too far away who charges by the mill pass.  Each time the blade goes down the track, whether for lumber, slabs, stickers, etc, he charges.  I'm not sure what he gets, or how common this is.  He is the only one I know of who does this, but his customers must not mind as he stays busy.
YH 

[irvi00]

Just my .02, we charge $125 per hour. We can saw around 1000 bd./ft. in an hour. This covers any downtime due to metal in the logs and covers metal detecting prior to sawing. We only saw straight rough, everything in one pack. No stacking. Bring us the logs, take away a dead pack of lumber.

[Tom the Sawyer]

francismilker,

This topic always brings out a lot of varied opinions.  The rates you gave would be consistent if you only averaged 80 board feet per hour.  If you comfortably can produce 200 bf per hour then you would be earning $100 per hour (by the bf) so sawing for $40 per hour seems pretty low.  If you're making a profit at $40 per hour then .50 p/bf seems steep - depending on your situation.   

What others in your area charge for similar work may give you a starting point but you really need to know what it costs to operate your mill.  Keep very detailed records for awhile; track the time it takes to saw each log and how many board feet you produce from each log.  Keep track of your mill engine hours per job (mine increments by the hour, not the tenth), cost of blades and sharpening, cost of fuel, labor (if any), parts, repairs, taxes, insurance, advertising, etc.  After a couple of months, or quarters, you'll have a pretty good idea what it is costing you to produce a board foot of lumber.  Add in a reasonable amount for your time and return on your investment, perhaps even a replacement fund.  Total it up - when you know that much about your operation it will be much easier to set your prices. 

I've become more proficient since I started my business but fuel costs have surpassed any gain that resulted.  I've held prices steady for the past 18 months but new fees go into effect January 1st.

[TGS]

5 years ago I started at .20 a bf and sawed that way for quite a while. 2 summers ago when gas got up to $4 a gallon I went to .25 and now I'm thinking .30 for 2013. I rarely have small logs to worry about so hourly pricing isn't so much of a big deal for me. Occasionally I'll get extra muddy logs or something that dictates an increase in the BF price, but such things are agreed upon in advance. This summer when things got slow I started pushing for smaller jobs that I could do in a day or less. On those jobs I charged .30 and everyone was happy. On jobs that have less than 1000 bf I charge a setup fee, normally $50 to help cover my travel expenses.

I've yet to saw a job where the first meeting didn't involve us staring at a log pile and the owner asking, "How many feet you think is here?" I'm pretty good at estimating and typically tell them that when we hit that point, I'll let them know so that they can plan their expenses accordingly. I try to avoid that deer in the headlights moment when they stare blankly after hearing the total bill. I much prefer to keep them abreast of the charges, often giving them a daily update as we go along.

Magic Man - I like how you round up. I've always done it for stuff less than an inch but always charged to the inch for stuff over. Its something I need to look into.

Martin

[Nomad]

I'm considering a totally different method of charging. I've found that most customers don't have a clue what a board foot is and have no idea how much time it will take to saw a log into lumber. Using either method sometimes leaves the customer feeling he's being ripped off because he doesn't any idea what the job will cost out of his pocket. I'm considering charging  by the foot of log length ie a 12 foot long log will cost you 12 X my rate, an 8 footer 8 X the same rate. Customer knows ahead of time what the cost will be. Probably set one rate for anything under 18 inches and another for over 18. I'm thinking if I set the rates right, should average out about the same as bd ft or hour. Customer happy knowing cost before hand, I'm happy with a decent return..The sticky part will be setting the rates that are fair to both.

     Piney, I like the way you're looking at this.  I agree that Joe Homeowner usually doesn't have a clue what a board foot is.  I even had one cabinet maker look puzzled about that :.  Keep us posted on how/what you figure out with your idea.

[Leigh Family Farm]

In your cost estimate to the customer, do you charge extra for bringing stickers? Is it still the same hourly rate to stack and sticker?  Or just an increase to the hourly rate?

You are hired to saw 1200 bdft and stack it into a pile. You can typically saw 300 bdft/hr this way.

Example 1: You provide stickers but don't use them when stacking. The customer does that later.
4 hours = $350
Regular hourly rate $75
50 Stickers $50

Example 2: You provide stickers and stack with them.
5 hours = $400 (an extra hour because of time it takes to sticker while sawing)
Regular hourly rate $75
+ $5 per hour for stickering

I would think that Example 2 would be more profitable because you would be working longer hours at each job and Homeowner Joe (who doesn't know much about drying wood) gets a complete package. Thoughts?

[Magicman]

In my situation, I do not hire or provide help.  That is the customer's responsibility.  I charge the same rate regardless of the lumber thickness, and stickers are just part of the job.  I provide them while edging.

[POSTON WIDEHEAD]

In my situation, I do not hire or provide help.  That is the customer's responsibility.  I charge the same rate regardless of the lumber thickness, and stickers are just part of the job.  I provide them while edging.

You don't get that many stickers just from edging do you? If my customers wants stickers, I'll ask him if he needs any prior to my sawing. I usually get their stickers out of 1 x 4's from the log.
I guess every saw job is different.

[Magicman]

I do not make a big deal out of sawing stickers.  If/when I see that there will not be enough, I just make stickers out of a few flitches.  Sure, that is a couple of less boards to scale, but I am OK with it. 

I provide a service, turn a good profit, have satisfied customers, and have fun doing it.   

[POSTON WIDEHEAD]

  That's what its all about! 

[drobertson]

Lots of reading going on here, and it as usual sounds consistant.  charge what you can afford to make ends meet in regards to market value.  As far as stickers go, on custom jobs when starting fresh, I always try to arange some of the smaller, clearer logs for this to get the stacks going. and I charge for it. In the begining flow is critical.  4X4's or something close is good for lumber stacks, this is a must unless the stock will be moved. Cutting is cutting, and if the flow is up there can be some adjustments to help the custormer on cost. But we are here to make some money too.  It takes time and experience, and for some a bankroll to give time away.   david

[francismilker]

So far, I've not become consistent enough with my mill to feel good about charging anything.  I'm still in the learning stages and want to be very proficient with it before I hang out a shingle and start receiving wages.  However, at $40 an hour for custom sawing I can turn out a few boards and hour and keep the customer smiling. 

This rotating day\night shiftwork I do is the hardes part on trying to run a mill on the side.  It's keeping the lights on though.  The milkcows are just a glorified hobby these days but it keeps me udderly happy!

I'm using the mill as my form of "prozac in a plank" and loving every minute of it. 

[Solomon]

In my situation, I do not hire or provide help.  That is the customer's responsibility.  I charge the same rate regardless of the lumber thickness, and stickers are just part of the job.  I provide them while edging.

You don't get that many stickers just from edging do you? If my customers wants stickers, I'll ask him if he needs any prior to my sawing. I usually get their stickers out of 1 x 4's from the log.
I guess every saw job is different.

You guys use Green lumber to make stickers?

[learner]

That's my question too Solomon.  Wet wood on wet wood just promotes problems and staining.  Not to mention those stickers are gonna warp and twist while drying just like the boards.
I have to say that properly drying ANY cut wood is neccesary.  That's something I insist that our customers know.
Don't want them taking their wet wood home and sticking it in the garage or shed for a few weeks before doing something with it.
Here in Texas, that mold and the bugs just LOVE wet wood.  I don't need a customer coming back saying my wood is covered with slime and as crooked as a polotician!
Any logs I cut for stock, I also edge in 2" cuts for usable stickers(2nd and 3rd cuts off the log are also good for stickers).Gotta have them myself for the drying stage.
I try to set aside 30% of all I cut, to be dried and offered to customers, for a price of course.  Even cutting and drying stickers takes time, manpower and wear on the blades and mill.
Unless the customer asks otherwise, I allways cut 7/8" 1x?'s.  It produces more wood per cut and allows for planing to dimension sizes.
Most people don't know that wood NEEDS to be dried!  They are used to buying it from a lumber yard where that is allready taken care of.  So they think they can just bring you some logs and go home with ready to use wood.  We are in the bussiness of helping recently deceased trees Live on in the lives of people everywhere.
To do that I feel we are obligated to do more than just saw the logs for them.
Sawing the logs is just the beginning.  When it comes off the mill, it's wet and covered with sawdust.  Just loading it onto their trailer is the beginning of the problems.  I like them to know up-front that it needs to be cleaned off and stacked properly.  Then it needs to dry for awhile.

[Ianab]

You guys use Green lumber to make stickers?

Some species you can, others is asking for problems.

I use green stickers if I have to on various Cedar and Cypress species, without problems. But these are not prone to staining, and dry fast, so you can get away with it.  I've had to use it on pine and eucalyptus too, and that did create some sticker staining, so I've seen the problem.

Or if the wood is for hidden construction then any staining may not matter.

Or, if you only have green stickers, it's still MUCH better than not stickering at all 

Ian

[learner]

You guys use Green lumber to make stickers?

Some species you can, others is asking for problems.

I use green stickers if I have to on various Cedar and Cypress species, without problems. But these are not prone to staining, and dry fast, so you can get away with it.  I've had to use it on pine and eucalyptus too, and that did create some sticker staining, so I've seen the problem.

Or if the wood is for hidden construction then any staining may not matter.

Or, if you only have green stickers, it's still MUCH better than not stickering at all 

Ian

Good point!

[POSTON WIDEHEAD]

Be careful what you sticker with. Know your customers.

99.9999% of my sales and custom sawing is farm use lumber. Farm use lumber only requires proper thickness x width x length. When I sticker farm lumber, moisture content of stickers or species doesn't matter.
I should have explained and did not intend for my stickering method to be used to air dry top grade lumber. 

I do have air dried pine stickers and dry oak stickers I use for stacking and sticking Q-SAWN lumber.

[learner]

Can we ever say too much when it comes to talking about Wood?  Poston(David?) I just learned something  so all is great!  Quick build farm lumber, green stickers okay. 

James

[Magicman]

The great majority of my sawing is beetle killed SYP, and green stickers are OK.   I keep a large whack of dried stickers that I provide when I know that the sawjob is Oak.